Listened to a pair last year and impressive bass for size but I thought they were let down by poor choice of finish, drivers and some of the claims such as "...New Physics" being involved in design plus "Sub-sonic" bass performance.
It's a small box tuned using EBS and sounds good close to walls if a little ragged in the mids/treble. I thought they dropped off pretty rapidly pulled out into the room a little. For similar money, the refinement offered by the CA Electronics AP10 was much preferable to my ears. Caterthuns look expensive too compared with the competition but quite entertaining overall.
Interesting, Paul. I haven't heard the monitors in question, but I wonder if your perspective partially characterizes the small vs big speakers comparison? Especially give the fact you have owned, and by all accounts recently created, some top end, full range reference speakers.
Those of us who listen through smaller monitors tend to become immersed in the performance, in rather the same way a pair of headphones allows. Like with all speakers, once accustomed, we tend to listen through the 'faults', glossing over them. Also like headphones, small monitors tend to allow a personal intimacy and involvement with the music, in spite of perhaps obvious limitations. It's also worth noting that some audiophiles hate listening through headphones, because of their characteristics, just as other strongly prefer large speakers. (Of course, many prefer small monitor speakers, and a large group listen exclusively through headphones.)
Having spent some time with decent larger speakers, I fully understand the appeal, and in many senses the superiority of larger speakers. I would own some in a heartbeat, if I could. They can offer a more 'complete package' for sure, but it seems only the very best large speakers recover what most decent standmounts do so well, which is a sense of intimate involvement, a believable accuracy (even if on a smaller scale), and oodles of detail (sounstage, image, seperation, texture, speakers 'disappearing').
Just as headphones become almost part of the listener, so I feel small monitors do. Maybe partly because they are often listened to nearfield, minimizing room effects, and also partly because smaller cabinets are easier to make inert. Large speakers usually impress with scale and dynamics, and tone and timbre, but in doing so seem to trade off what is great about really good smaller monitors.
Unfortunately, it seems to me one has to get really serious (in terms of investment and engineerring) to get the best, of both worlds.
I enjoyed them a lot, quite a different presentation to the RR3, although I haven't heard those in quite some time. I made the comparison with ProAcs in the review - if the coin was music, they'd each be on the other side of the coin!
I like both ProAc Response series and the Caterthuns - in very different ways! Quite a different take on the music. Maybe the Truth lies somewhere between! :-/
I don't think RD uses RR3s. He has his own speaker range, which have a very particular view of how music should be presented.
Alan and I use RR3s and Mervyn uses another from the Revelation series. I was an NVA user, as was Alan, and Mervyn continues to be, so I think there's a certain amount of synergy between Royds and NVAs.
My comments aren't from the POV of comparisons with large speakers. I merely commented that the finish wasn't up to the price tag, nor was driver quality. I personally thought that whilst very impressive when positioned close to the rear wall, they dropped off sharply (as you'd expect from any small speaker) when pulled out a bit. I didn't think that the treble detail was the last word in refinement either.
For listening to the music for less dosh, I much preferred my old Proac Tablet Ref 8 Signatures. More detailed, more refined, better finished and worth the (then) asking price IMHO providing you could live with no bass to speak of sub 60Hz.
The other ones I mentioned (the AP10's) are also stand mounters of similar proportions and were better in almost every respect imho.
OK Paul, thanks for that. Perhaps I should try reading the lines, instead of between them...
Still, this is teh internetz. I am allowed to write rubbish!
On a semi related note, I get faaar too much bass (and humps, at that) if I position my speakers close to the wall. Although they are tiny, they are about four feet away from the rear walls (admittedly that is the back of two alcoves). The 'main' wall runs about two feet behind, but in both cases out the side of the speakers.
Have you the speakers positioned equi-distant from side and rear walls? If so, this could be a significant contributing factor. Try spacing them so that the front baffle's always less than a metre from the front wall (or as close as you can get them to the wall) but take care that the distance from the side walls are not the same NOR equal multiples of the distance from the front wall to the front baffle. Having equi-distant front and side spacing (or equal multiples thereof) allows standing waves to be set up which depending on length, reinforce boom.
Mine are where they are because that's where they have to be, except for small 'tuning' adjustments.
Same for me Dave but my RR1's are pretty tolerant of most room positions.Mine are as far apart as I can get them as recommended by Mr Ackroyd himself. They have responded to every system upgrade I have thrown at them and just keep getting better and better. Personally never felt the need to get 'big' speakers per se and like most hifi things there are always trade-offs and compromises.
I've been a fan of big speakers in the past - I've had Monitor Audios, Ruarks and Impulses - but I've got the mission (not the brand) to try get to the far reaches of the RR3s' abilities.
I haven't got there yet. Nor have I got there with the Young DAC, although I suspect the Young will run out of puff before the Royds.
As designer and manufacturer of the Caterthun loudspeaker, I just thought I'd pitch in with my tuppence-worth.
As a "start-up", and with the criticism we'd previously received, we attended Whittlebury NAS 2012 with a very budget-orientated system.
Since then, we've teamed-up with Deltec Precision Audio to supply completely UK designed and built audio systems. They have the advantage that they sound awesomely well balanced when placed very close to their rear wall, out of the way of pets, children and anyone else. They are not built to work in free-space but, when used as directed, they will out-perform anything else in their size/price bracket. And the quality of the Deltec Precision Audio amplification shines through them in breath-taking style.
The new physics relates to the fact that we don't combat against standing-waves, but we encourage the production of complex standing-waves at EVERY frequency with which the cabinet is driven.
The bass-humps mentioned in an earlier post (hi Alan) are due to the interactions of occasional standing-waves (produced by cabinet resonances and their harmonics) and the boundary walls, resulting in an un-even performance. Because Alacrity Audio Limited's Audio Induction system produces standing-waves at every frequency, the resulting output is flat in it's response envelope. This effect stops at aprx 10 Hertz in our Classic model, lower in our new one (to be launched @ Whittlebury NAS 2013.
I hope that explains things. This new physics can be tricky to get your head around.
Any questions, email either me or Adrian from Delco; both e-dresses are easily available on the inter-web.
I have a degree of ignorance when it come to most things, does that help?
I would hazard a guess that the only way one would 'get' what your design does is to listen to it. I have no idea of the efficacy of 'your' science, but the proof is in the pudding. Welcome to 'Chews.
I have a degree of ignorance when it come to most things, does that help?
I would hazard a guess that the only way one would 'get' what your design does is to listen to it. I have no idea of the efficacy of 'your' science, but the proof is in the pudding. Welcome to 'Chews.
Hi Alan
Certainly helped me. They said it couldn't be done, but I just didn't bother to listen.
;-)
Bums-on-seats, that's the only way to sell my speakers. Dispels all doubt. Just about everyone that saw, and heard, us at Whittlebury last year (including Adrian @ DPA) kinda got us.
This year, we're hoping for more.
Hi UM. Adrian and I are working on a more approachable explanation than those available on my website,but I don't know when it'll be ready. How can I help for now?
I have a degree of ignorance when it come to most things, does that help?
I would hazard a guess that the only way one would 'get' what your design does is to listen to it. I have no idea of the efficacy of 'your' science, but the proof is in the pudding. Welcome to 'Chews.
Hi Alan
Certainly helped me. They said it couldn't be done, but I just didn't bother to listen.
;-)
Bums-on-seats, that's the only way to sell my speakers. Dispels all doubt. Just about everyone that saw, and heard, us at Whittlebury last year (including Adrian @ DPA) kinda got us.
This year, we're hoping for more.
Hi UM. Adrian and I are working on a more approachable explanation than those available on my website,but I don't know when it'll be ready. How can I help for now?
Jon
Just interested, as a long time ago I studied Physics.
Thanks BD, and thanks to Jerry as well. They've got a new 3 page review in this month's HiFi+. Jason sez; "... all [you] have to do is enjoy the emotional depth and gravitas [in Beethoven's 12th Quartet]". Thankfully, he also aknowledged that they can be sensitive to siting and supports, and that Blu-tak can be improved upon, but I think he really 'gets' them. jon
I have a degree of ignorance when it come to most things, does that help?
I would hazard a guess that the only way one would 'get' what your design does is to listen to it. I have no idea of the efficacy of 'your' science, but the proof is in the pudding. Welcome to 'Chews.
Hi Alan
Certainly helped me. They said it couldn't be done, but I just didn't bother to listen.
;-)
Bums-on-seats, that's the only way to sell my speakers. Dispels all doubt. Just about everyone that saw, and heard, us at Whittlebury last year (including Adrian @ DPA) kinda got us.
This year, we're hoping for more.
Hi UM. Adrian and I are working on a more approachable explanation than those available on my website,but I don't know when it'll be ready. How can I help for now?
Jon
Just interested, as a long time ago I studied Physics.
Comments
Those of us who listen through smaller monitors tend to become immersed in the performance, in rather the same way a pair of headphones allows. Like with all speakers, once accustomed, we tend to listen through the 'faults', glossing over them. Also like headphones, small monitors tend to allow a personal intimacy and involvement with the music, in spite of perhaps obvious limitations. It's also worth noting that some audiophiles hate listening through headphones, because of their characteristics, just as other strongly prefer large speakers. (Of course, many prefer small monitor speakers, and a large group listen exclusively through headphones.)
Having spent some time with decent larger speakers, I fully understand the appeal, and in many senses the superiority of larger speakers. I would own some in a heartbeat, if I could. They can offer a more 'complete package' for sure, but it seems only the very best large speakers recover what most decent standmounts do so well, which is a sense of intimate involvement, a believable accuracy (even if on a smaller scale), and oodles of detail (sounstage, image, seperation, texture, speakers 'disappearing').
Just as headphones become almost part of the listener, so I feel small monitors do. Maybe partly because they are often listened to nearfield, minimizing room effects, and also partly because smaller cabinets are easier to make inert. Large speakers usually impress with scale and dynamics, and tone and timbre, but in doing so seem to trade off what is great about really good smaller monitors.
Unfortunately, it seems to me one has to get really serious (in terms of investment and engineerring) to get the best, of both worlds.
I didn't think I was so pretty...
That was my review on the Pig
I enjoyed them a lot, quite a different presentation to the RR3, although I haven't heard those in quite some time. I made the comparison with ProAcs in the review - if the coin was music, they'd each be on the other side of the coin!
I like both ProAc Response series and the Caterthuns - in very different ways! Quite a different take on the music. Maybe the Truth lies somewhere between! :-/
Still, this is teh internetz. I am allowed to write rubbish!
On a semi related note, I get faaar too much bass (and humps, at that) if I position my speakers close to the wall. Although they are tiny, they are about four feet away from the rear walls (admittedly that is the back of two alcoves). The 'main' wall runs about two feet behind, but in both cases out the side of the speakers.
As a rough guess, the right speaker (looking at the system) is about 1 - 1.25 metres from the side wall, and the left about 5 metres.
I will have to get busy with a tape measure, and check for equi-distance clashes.
Same for me Dave but my RR1's are pretty tolerant of most room positions.Mine are as far apart as I can get them as recommended by Mr Ackroyd himself.
They have responded to every system upgrade I have thrown at them and just keep getting better and better. Personally never felt the need to get 'big' speakers per se and like most hifi things there are always trade-offs and compromises.
I have a degree of ignorance when it come to most things, does that help?
I would hazard a guess that the only way one would 'get' what your design does is to listen to it. I have no idea of the efficacy of 'your' science, but the proof is in the pudding. Welcome to 'Chews.
Thankfully, he also aknowledged that they can be sensitive to siting and supports, and that Blu-tak can be improved upon, but I think he really 'gets' them.
jon
j