New computer for HiFi
My Apple Mac mini has broken, I'm waiting on an insurance claim. A Mac mini is a lovely thing for home audio, it's small, powerful and reliable. But it is over-priced as far as hardware goes, and the user is locked into apple software. My family mostly use Windows & Android, so I am now wondering why I would consider tying our 'media centre' to an Apple machine?
A few years ago, there wasn't many small form factor PCs about so the Mac mini was a no-brainer. Now there are a few more options out there so a brain definitely needs to be engaged. Alternative PC options appear to cost a little less than the equivalent Apple hardware, yet also they can have a few advantages. To wit:
Tiny Green PC.
Tranquil PC.
ATLast! Fanless NUC.
All three of these are small, powerful and great for a HTPC (Home Theatre PC). Just like a Mac mini.
Where they are not like a Mac mini is thus: they are smaller, they cost less, they have HDMI out (which my previous late 2009 model didn't have), and they have no fan - passive cooling!
I've looked through them all, and I currently favour the AtLast! solution, which is conveniently the cheapest (an important factor, given the excess on my insurance payout). I am considering a passively cooled Intel NUC motherboard, 4 GB RAM, i3 processor, 60 GB SSD. I don't think anything else is really necessary, storage is via LAN on a QNAP NAS. (actually, bluetooth & wireless could be good, I could have wireless keyboard & mouse so the children can play computer games, using the TV screen).
The best media player on windows appears to be JRiver (Well I certainly hope it's better than JRiver for Mac). This has apps for android phones & tablets, so that's the remote control taken care of.
What am I missing? Is the it really a case of 'The king is dead - long live the king'? Or should I reconsider a second hand Apple Mac mini?
A few years ago, there wasn't many small form factor PCs about so the Mac mini was a no-brainer. Now there are a few more options out there so a brain definitely needs to be engaged. Alternative PC options appear to cost a little less than the equivalent Apple hardware, yet also they can have a few advantages. To wit:
Tiny Green PC.
Tranquil PC.
ATLast! Fanless NUC.
All three of these are small, powerful and great for a HTPC (Home Theatre PC). Just like a Mac mini.
Where they are not like a Mac mini is thus: they are smaller, they cost less, they have HDMI out (which my previous late 2009 model didn't have), and they have no fan - passive cooling!
I've looked through them all, and I currently favour the AtLast! solution, which is conveniently the cheapest (an important factor, given the excess on my insurance payout). I am considering a passively cooled Intel NUC motherboard, 4 GB RAM, i3 processor, 60 GB SSD. I don't think anything else is really necessary, storage is via LAN on a QNAP NAS. (actually, bluetooth & wireless could be good, I could have wireless keyboard & mouse so the children can play computer games, using the TV screen).
The best media player on windows appears to be JRiver (Well I certainly hope it's better than JRiver for Mac). This has apps for android phones & tablets, so that's the remote control taken care of.
What am I missing? Is the it really a case of 'The king is dead - long live the king'? Or should I reconsider a second hand Apple Mac mini?
Comments
I have heard a heavily modded Garrard 401 & a fettled Voyd Valdi come close, but not definitely better!
And besides - you know me! Do you really think I need another thing to obsess about???
Actually, it's very similar to computer audio in terms of mucking about, isn't it?
BTW, my new audiopooter is gonna have soul! You wait & see...
I haven't been looking at this sort of thing since taking on a TFS from Jason, but it's good to see the market expanding. This is clearly a part of the future. Hopefully as well as wireless and bluetooth, one might inlude a diamond stylus sooner or later...
I do think the SSD route is a good one and in the future this is something I'll be exploring.
Since buying JRiver (it's $50) I've really taken to using computer files for music - this is not been my experience with the likes of Foobar and the other programs i've used that fel clunky and primitive in comparison.
Atcherly I can't afford a 'soul' (or TT) right now. The insurance wants to pay out by supplying an equivalent machine, rather than a cash settlement.
I may set up a seperate user account with audio style mods & tweaks for when I want to listen seriously.
I heard Mark from Item talk up JPlay, that's something to look into. In fact, I rather hope Mark might chip in later with some thoughts.
Linux scares me tbh, I can't afford to lose what street cred I have!
I hate messing with computers, so I'd have to consider it carefully.
The Pi cost about £30 and there are XBMC image files online that are easy to load onto the Pi from a memory card. The Pi has USB out for audio and HDMI for video.
In terms of sonics, I have read that Linux systems are a excellent low power, low cost way to get an super result, but that a carefully set up Apple system can beat it, and a carefully set up Windoze system can take them all, if it has the processing oomph. I have no experience to say if this is true or not, but it is an impression I've formed form my research.
Given what I'm trying to do, a powerful HTPC on W8.1 seems like the best way to include my family in the system's use, with a seperate user account for serious listening with all the settings I want.
Alan - I was watching a 1080p XBMC stream from a Pi a couple of weeks back without any issue......I take your point though that given the low spec, there cannot be much processing overhead available.
The Pi boots in a few seconds and XBMC will 'discover' it on your network very quickly.....simples
pfm Thread.
Fox makes lots of very compelling points re Cubox-i as a streaming box. I may investigate this for fun later as it seems very worthwhile.
This is what I'm currently thinking (below was my answer to ItemAudio on pfm):
Originally Posted by ItemAudio View Post
If you set the bar at “multimedia, small form factor, reliable, responsive, easy to use” . . . it's so hard to avoid recommending the Mac Mini. It's a miniature marvel; better in most respects than its closest equivalent: a NUC build. Equally moddable, too.
Your only other alternative would be really small form-factor computers - the best of which is currently the PCDuino3. However, these are still a bit underpowered for proper duty: ie, you get nominal '1080p compatibility', but drags and jaggies when the barely adequate frame rate is exposed by complex panning scenes.
Sonically, the main step-ups happen when you get away from a single-rail supply and into DSD resampling, but if you want to stick with a small, quiet speedy little computer, the Mac Mini is it - unless you do Linux on a baby board, which will be a bit cheaper. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but I can't see any other way of putting it!
My reply:
OK, this is kind of where the original question was aiming.
I understand the reasoning, but why is a Mini a better option than a Haswell i5 NUC in a fanless case? Such a machine is more than capable of everything (short of heavy duty gaming) expected of a slick HTPC, thanks in part to the respectable integrated graphics in the new Intel chips (4600HD). But also, it covers some of the audio hardware 'tweaks' without even trying:
Passive cooling
Choice of whichever software
Low power consumption (including 'T' processors with max 35 TDP)
DC in, option for LPSU
All SSD/no moving parts
(NB - I really don't want to see a flame war here about the efficacy or otherwise of the above - the point is they are included as standard in quite a few configurations now and it certainly wouldn't do any harm)
Comparing the above to a McMini, the spec is broadly comparable, and Intel are selling these NUC boards for about £30 more than the processor itself. They are obviously keen to push the NUC philosophy/form factor. This makes it great value, and cheaper than a mini ITX build (the original idea). Also you get the configuration in the bullet points above, surely making it closer to the type of machine people have been building for audio than a stock Mac mini is.
From a hairy chested modding POV, the drawbacks are single rail power and limited expansion possibilities, but I bet something could be possible with some thought.
I specced up an Abel NUC (BYO - build your own) here for £609. It has W8.1 64bit, 8GB RAM, 60GB MSATA (another bay available for standard SSD), premium finish, optional wireless module and IR remote supplied. Probably plus VAT & delivery. I may be missing a lot here, but in what conceivable way would a McMini be a better choice (apart from resale - not a consideration)?
JRiver playing off SSD in ASIO on the TFS is the dogs bollocks on music and movies.
(More worthy of Class A than vinyl. ;-p
Edit: vinyl also more than worthy, of course...!)
Here is a copy of my most recent post on pfm, in response to the suggestions that I settle for a small linux streamer & get a games console for the kids. It has been a good discussion so far:
We have a wii anyways (filthy habit, playing with one's wii), but the children like their minecraft, youtube etc. We definately want a HTPC solution for the lounge at this time.
As for audio, I'll set up a separate user account, choice software, and away we go with all the processing power we could ever need up to and surpassing on the fly PCM to DSD conversion and/or room correction.
At the moment I'm looking at either pre-built or modular BYO NUC with 4th Gen i5, passive cooled, solid state etc, runs on low power DC input. They come in at about £570 - £670 depending on how pretty you want the case to be.
i5 NUC
Prettier i5 NUC
Or a Mac mini with fans & spinning discs, SMPS, 3rd Gen i7 for £550, maybe I'll muck about with it later. Or not.
I don't fancy the hairy chested self build mini ITX build on reflection, so it's probably going to be one of these options above. Both the NUC & Apple are extremely capable machines, the main criticism seems to be they are overkill and the budget covers both options. So all in all, quite a nice little dilemma to have and one I shall leisurely decide on over the week to come.
As a footnote, tonight I favour the Intel NUC I linked to above over the Mac, because on reflection I think it has a few advantages. Namely the latest Intel processors with significantly improved integrated graphics over the previous generation, and all passive cooled, solid state, low power - this appeals to general 'audiophile good practice' sensibilities and this can't be a bad thing. The Mac uses spinny things, SMPS, has a fan and uses older Intel processors (anybody know if the Mini uses 2nd or 3rd Gen Intel chips?).
They'll probably release a new model this Monday anyways...