2nd Systems

What are you keeping safe from the attic...?

With the Easter sunshine turned on today, I'm in the conservatory (ooo, get me) with my 2nd system.

I was complaining about the sound the other week, but raising the speakers up a bit (with bricks) has made a useful difference to the overblown and uncouth bass that was previously causing me to feel annoyance and disappointment. I suspect they could do with a bit more raising; I know Suzy found the Wharfdales sounded better when lifted up a bit. I have my 10 inch stands that she used in the shed. Maybe I'll get them out at some point... Although bricks seem more funky for a 2nd system. B-)

image

Anyway, I'm enjoying listening to this. Obviously not the widest soundstage I've ever achieved, but there's something about a 2nd system that means I feel liberated from an OCD pressure to achieve optimal SQ! Hard to go very wrong with a Claymore.

(And thanks again to Colin for the digital front end too (it's taking a wifi MP3 stream from the media PC via JRiver's Android ap 'Gizmo'). :-D )

Comments

  • I didnt know they allowed conservatories in Glaws these days!  How times have changed. 

    "the overblown and uncouth bass that was previously causing me to feel annoyance and disappointment."

    Loving that description. Perfect! Still miss those wharfies tho :-) Am enjoying my Castle Chesters, but they are very elegant and refined (in sound and aesthetic) compared to that unignorable boisterousness of the Wharfdales.

    Was thinking about a second system myself the other night. Mostly because I seem to have a glut of amps here at the mo. Was wondering about using the Marantz to set up a system for my young lodger and give her a richer experience of music listening. Not sure what I'd use as a source though. She has a love of all things "90s" and thinks CDs are "retro" and "dank" (that means good, so my 16 year old students inform me), so suspect that would be her preference.  I could easily donate the CD player from my main system, as I rarely use it. I havent actually talked to her about any of this, but was having a really lovely daydream about it. Need to pick up some speakers tho....
    My alternative is to use the CLaymore 2 for a bedroom system for myself. But I'm not sure what source I'd use for that...... 
    :-?
  • If you still have your PC running JRiver you or your lodger can stream your whole music collection from there via a smart phone or tablet (JRemote ap on Apple devices, Gizmo on Androids). Just set the playback option on the ap to "Here" or "This device" (can't remember which) rather than "server".

    (Conservatories are allowed in Gloucester, but only if one has a broken white good in the back garden.)
  • edited March 2016
    My second system is also non-idealy set up, so much so that I can't even get a half decent picture of it. Probably just as well because the room it resides in is somewhat disarranged to say the least.

    Denon 44 cassette
    Meridian 506/24 (currently swapped for my MPC now in the main system)
    Claymore
    Heco S220

    TBH this actually sees more action than the main system :(

    Just behind it in usage is my headphones only set in the hobby room;
    Marantz CD52ii
    MF X-Cans (heavily moded)
    + headphones to suit the mood/music

    Oh, there's also a portable MiniDisc player and closed-back Superlux cans in the bedside drawer!
  • edited March 2016
    I found an older shot of the 2nd system, with Arcam CD, MPC and Aune flash player.

    image



  • That's a brilliant structure. :-)
    What are the other bits?
  • edited March 2016
    It's my Aztec temple of aural delight!

    The bits I haven't mentioned are a QED Tape switcher, a dodgy ebay "Indeed G2" open frame headphone amplifier (moded and rehoused in a retro DIY case) and lastly, peeking out from rear right is a Niles speaker and amp switcher...old school multi-room ;)
  • edited May 2016
    Had a morning of speaker fiddling on the 2nd system today. I have been using it only to pump music into the garden during bbqs - the sound otherwise has been too disappointing. The upper bass was simply too boomy.
    However, some success today...
    Slightly tarnished by the fact that Dave's recent suggestion that it was the speakers that were the obvious bottle neck has been proved correct! ;-)

    Firstly, replacing the wadding with acoustic foam (the cheapo egg-box type (see below), attached to the inside of the cabinet) has reaped real rewards. The bass sounds to me more controlled now, and without the proportionally deadening effect across the frequency range that the wadding had. (Without any wadding or foam the sound was more lively, but intolerably boomy; in fact it was impossible to have the volume knob turned up beyond 8 o'clock - now it's up at 12 - far more dynamic and balanced! ;-) ).

    I've also secured the Wharfdales back up on their stands (they had been just wobbling about on bricks). Their sitting on the floor reinforced the bass in a way that was wholly unnecessary and unhelpful.

    Finally, I noticed a small split in the right hand mid driver (don't think I did it today) so a little insulating tape band-aid has gone on that. I think I've got a replacement driver in the attic somewhere. Or I might try a PVA repair. Or might just leave the insulating tape on.

    Anyway, the upshot of all this is a 2nd system that I can actually listen to with pleasure. The Claymore is certainly better partnered now.

    image
  • Great Ben,

    Nice work.
  • edited May 2016
    Great to see the original Claymore?

    ''Or I might try a PVA repair. Or might just leave the insulating tape on''

    I've had some success in the past with tissue paper (the arty type not the nose blow).

    layer 1 PVA Glue lightly applied.

    layer 2 Tissue paper.

    Build up a few layers letting each dry thoroughly.

    Worked for me.

    If the rubber surrounds have perished then have it re coned.

    looking good.


  • edited May 2016
    Docfoster said:
    <snip>
    Slightly tarnished by the fact that Dave's recent suggestion that it was the speakers that were the obvious bottle neck has been proved correct! ;-)
    <snip>

    Who, me? :-O

    Actually, as it was right, must have been me :-)

    And where's the RPi? 

    Oh. The book's wrong, of course. The sequel would have been better. You know, The Shock of the Old :-D
  • AntiCrap said:
    Great Ben,

    Nice work.
    Thanks Colin.
    I'm feeling less guilty that your lovely little amp is now able to stretch its legs a bit more. An even longer stride is possible I suspect, once the Wharfdales allow...! :-)
  • shoom said:
    Great to see the original Claymore?

    ''Or I might try a PVA repair. Or might just leave the insulating tape on''

    I've had some success in the past with tissue paper (the arty type not the nose blow).

    layer 1 PVA Glue lightly applied.

    layer 2 Tissue paper.

    Build up a few layers letting each dry thoroughly.

    Worked for me.

    If the rubber surrounds have perished then have it re coned.

    looking good.


    Thanks for the affirmation.
    And, I really like your PVA - tissue patch up idea. Like a paper-mache skin graft. I may try that. :-)
    The rubbers are all fine. They seem to be of the rubber (not-foam...?) non-perishable kind. I've got some JPW AP1s somewhere the surrounds of which had disintegrated completely and I did replace the surrounds on those.
    In fact, now I come to think of it, where the hell are they...? ...Would be good to compare to the Wharfdales. Probably the attic...?

    :-?
  • uglymusic said:
    Docfoster said:
    <snip>
    Slightly tarnished by the fact that Dave's recent suggestion that it was the speakers that were the obvious bottle neck has been proved correct! ;-)
    <snip>

    Who, me? :-O

    Actually, as it was right, must have been me :-)

    And where's the RPi? 

    Oh. The book's wrong, of course. The sequel would have been better. You know, The Shock of the Old :-D
    One step at a time. :-D The source is currently a Sony Xperia:
    image
    Playing ripped 256 mp3s from its SD card.
    The RPi will have to wait. I'm having too much fun structural engineering with silicon and foam, and soon with PVA and tissue paper to stray into electronics... ;-p

    The book! Well spotted. :-)

    It was the one knock-on effect of the stands: raising the speaker tops to a level slightly above the bottom of the TV, hence meaning they were forced outwards. I'm trying to keep everything compact, so raised the TV slightly with the book to allow the speakers to stay snug to the cabinet. I chose it because it was the largest book I had available, although I was certainly pleased that it happened to be the book it was, and arranged it spine-out to show it off. :-) It speaks of a time long ago when I considered a budding artist and art historian...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_of_the_New
    Reading and watching now, Robert Hughes is terribly didactic. But I did glean a lot of information from him in the late 80s,,,
  • Docfoster said:
    uglymusic said:
    Docfoster said:
    <snip>
    Slightly tarnished by the fact that Dave's recent suggestion that it was the speakers that were the obvious bottle neck has been proved correct! ;-)
    <snip>

    Who, me? :-O

    Actually, as it was right, must have been me :-)

    And where's the RPi? 

    Oh. The book's wrong, of course. The sequel would have been better. You know, The Shock of the Old :-D
    One step at a time. :-D The source is currently a Sony Xperia:
    image
    Playing ripped 256 mp3s from its SD card.
    The RPi will have to wait. I'm having too much fun structural engineering with silicon and foam, and soon with PVA and tissue paper to stray into electronics... ;-p

    The book! Well spotted. :-)

    It was the one knock-on effect of the stands: raising the speaker tops to a level slightly above the bottom of the TV, hence meaning they were forced outwards. I'm trying to keep everything compact, so raised the TV slightly with the book to allow the speakers to stay snug to the cabinet. I chose it because it was the largest book I had available, although I was certainly pleased that it happened to be the book it was, and arranged it spine-out to show it off. :-) It speaks of a time long ago when I considered a budding artist and art historian...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_of_the_New
    Reading and watching now, Robert Hughes is terribly didactic. But I did glean a lot of information from him in the late 80s,,,
    I remember the series and the book of the series. The Beeb don't seem to do that any more  :-(
  • A timely reminder of the sort of thing tge BBC is useful for! :-)
  • The Beeb is generally useful, but yes, it could be more so ;-)
  • Switched back to 1st system today.
    The experience put me in mind of getting into a time machine and travelling from somewhere at the beginning of my hifi journey about 25 years ago (as represented by my 2nd system) and stepping into where I am today (as represented by my first system), but bi-passing all of the faffing, expense, tweaking and frustrations!

    Crikey, I'm glad I've got all the system building out the way already in my life.
    My 2nd system is fine, but I am so happy with the big rig. And I want to make clear that what I am seeking to communicate there is relief, not smugness!

    (...I do want to stick the Claymore in the 1st system though. To see what it can do with proper partnering.)
  • edited June 2016
    Next stage of the second system speaker work...
    Have been seeking to further to tame the woofers with some doping.
    Just using PVA (very slightly watered down).
    Have put on about 6 coats so far. Very pleased with the results. May stick on a couple more tomorrow. Bass sounds much tighter and less boomy. The midrange (especially vocals) is much clearer.
    Obviously the cones look white when the PVA is wet, so temporarily the woofers match the old Leek Squawkers. Nice! And even when dry I prefer the look of the doped cones to their previous look.
    In the second photo, where I've been careless and applied a bit too much the PVA has collected around the dustcap and hence is taking longer to dry to clear. Also you might be able to see a few tiny bubbles. I found that for some reason this seemed more likely to happen if the PVA was used neat (hence the slight watering down).
    If something goes disasterously wrong, I do have a spare set of these woofers in the loft. So I don't feel too tense!
    image


    image
  • Slap it all over!
  • Interested to know what effect you get, Doc. 
  • edited July 2016
    Suzy6toes said:
    Interested to know what effect you get, Doc. 
    Righto. I've invested in some expensive measuring and data handling / analysis software.
    These are the results before and after doping:

    image

    image

    Actually, I think the "After doping" chart is a bit optmistic. The bass probably remains a bit higher.

    However the bass boom is significantly reduced. :-)
    I stopped at 8 coats as I was noticing that as the boom reduced so the midrange was thinning out too (presumably the woofer reaches up into that area). This is shown on the graph. After the 8th coat I didn't want to lose any more midrange warmth on the vocals, although the bass is still slightly more boomy than I'd ideally like.
    Oddly, but pleasingly the doping has affected the upper bass far more than the lower deep bass, which actually stands out far more now, and sounds fantastically Wonforesque coming from the supercharged Claymore.
    Finally much of the problem with the bass is likely to do with the room, and my listening position within it. It's a conservatory (about 4m x 4m) with a peaked roof. It may be that I've now tuned the speakers for the unique acoustics of this room, and that if I moved the speakers into the lounge with the main system they'd sound pathetically weedy!

    Anyway the system is now very listenable, and I am more than happy to give up the lounge (and the 1st system) and listen in here instead. As I am now. :-)
  • Nice data analysis. Impressively precise.
    Maybe come in from the conservatory now tho 
    ;)
  • Suzy6toes said:
    Nice data analysis. Impressively precise.
    Maybe come in from the conservatory now tho 
    ;)
    I did. But just for the footie. :-)
  • Here's the DAC/Amp part of my work system. It's an all DIY affair that I think I've described elsewhwere, line and USB only.

    image
  • cj66 said:

    Here's the DAC/Amp part of my work system. It's an all DIY affair that I think I've described elsewhwere, line and USB only.

    image

    That is brilliant.
    Bloody brilliant.
    Absolutely love it.
  • Thank you kind sir!
  • edited August 2016
    Look who's back...!

    image
  • ...Have even sent off my Decca Super Gold cart' for a refurb.
    Mind you, the cheapo Stanton in there at the moment is great fun.

    Now where the cor-blimey-guvna do I put all these records that I've just dragged out of the loft...?
  • The charity shop? (I'll get me coat!)
  • My is made from Meccano and a thorn sound like crap.
  • I love that the drawer handle looks so happy :-)
  • In do wish you would stop showing off your bush like that ! Most disturbing....
  • uglymusic said:

    The charity shop? (I'll get me coat!)

    Some, i fear, would be rejected by the good folks of the pdsa.
  • AntiCrap said:

    My is made from Meccano and a thorn sound like crap.

    Another Geoff design...?
  • Suzy6toes said:

    I love that the drawer handle looks so happy :-)

    You're empathising with furniture fixings...
  • sovereign said:

    In do wish you would stop showing off your bush like that ! Most disturbing....

    "Let the forest reclaim the land."
    Too much time with feminists...
  • edited September 2016
    2nd system has moved home and been rearranged...

    image

    image

    Now living in my hobby room. I need some kind of isolation for the speakers (old Heco i220s) as they really boom on top of chest-of-drawers.
  • I had a pair of Heco speakers.  They were the Celan 700 I think.  Fantastic speakers.
  • cj66 said:

    2nd system has moved home and been rearranged...

    image

    image

    Now living in my hobby room. I need some kind of isolation for the speakers (old Heco i220s) as they really boom on top of chest-of-drawers.


    And refreshed!
    Meridian and Teac...
    I don't recall their presence previously...
  • sovereign said:

    I had a pair of Heco speakers.  They were the Celan 700 I think.  Fantastic speakers.

    Those little tripods over tweeters...are they for protection, or do they serve some other intended purpose?
  • Aye Ben, you're correct.

    The Meridian is slumming it from the main system (tucked away for house-works) and the Teac is a cast off from the work hifi.

    The "tripods" are diffusers that help even out the response of the HF units.

    The Celan series was rather nice, I've personally heard the 700 and 300, both were excellent. It's a little known brand in the UK but a big one in Germany. Meaning you can get a good deal if you find some in the UK. I sold them briefly but can't remember who had the UK distributorship back then. The i220S that I have are from a cheaper range but still surprisingly good.
  • cj66 said:
    2nd system has moved home and been rearranged...

    image

    image

    Now living in my hobby room. I need some kind of isolation for the speakers (old Heco i220s) as they really boom on top of chest-of-drawers.
    Poor Claymore squashed.

  • It wants to be an Oberon!
  • I had a very pleasant late night listening sesh on my heaphones only system last night so here it is.

    image

    A standard Marantz CD52ii on transport duties, going into a DIY DAC and then feeding a heavily modified MF X-CanV2 which in turn drives the AKG K550 shown.
  • edited September 2016
    cj66 said:
    I had a very pleasant late night listening sesh on my heaphones only system last night so here it is.

    image

    A standard Marantz CD52ii on transport duties, going into a DIY DAC and then feeding a heavily modified MF X-CanV2 which in turn drives the AKG K550 shown.
    Looks like we might need a "3rd Systems" thread...

    Edit... Ah, the MuFi bean can range. :-) I love those. I had the X-LPS I think it was called. :-)
  • edited September 2016
    A Giant Based SECA System please. >:)
  • Not quite a second but more the remaining system that's not packed away.

    A bit of a reshuffle to keep the quality reasonble but system simple.

    image
  • Ooooh, cassette!

    How very hipster of you :-)
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