Upgrading from NVA SSP interconnects?

uglymusic

Those of us who use NVA gear know and love Richard Dunn's stiff ones  :-O

They're not the most practical of interconnects as those of us with with broken connections know. But that's not the thrust of this post.

The question is. Are there better interconnects we could be using within the context of an NVA system? Or can I put a line under that part of my system upgrading?

Alan

Hi Dave,

Jerry used bluemeanies with his A80s for a while - they were even his fave cables at the time. Gordon sells a lot of litz stuff - obviously no good, but he knows NVA pretty well & could knock something up for you. I'd suggest emailing Jerry to ask exactly what he used.

http://www.sinclairacoustics.com/sinclair_acoustics.html

There is also anothe cable maker on WW who is quoting very good prices right now, he'll make almost anything you ask if you explain your requirements to him. I'd be asking him myself.

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?52148-Interconnects-now-available

I'll be very intersted in your findings if you pursue this avenue. I have been considering resoldering all my cables and boxes with SMA connectors, as I remember reading in the NVA archive how these connectors were superior to all else. I don't imagine that has changed, but NVA stopped using them - probably more to do with manufacturing convenience & costs. Having said that changing it all would be a monumental faff, as is a lot with this hobby.

uglymusic

Last things first.

I'm thinking of moving away from SMA as they are a faff. Although if you can find a custom cable builder that offers cables at least as good as SSPs and will attach SMAs, then that'd be a great thing. RD never offered SSPs with SMA terminations because he claimed they were very difficult to attach. He did offer to build me a set before he decided I was the antichrist, though, so you may want to have a try.

The guy on the Wam looks interesting. I may well contact him.

But, what I really want to know is if someone has a recommendation for something better than SSPs. I guess I should ask Jerry whether he's tried the SSPs against bluemeanies.

Anyway, thanks for that Alan. It's all gone off in a slightly different direction to what I anticipated!

Alan

I think the Wam guy's name is Paul, though I've never spoken to him. One of his cables is basedon the Klotz 'La Grange' cable, and is low cap. Robert knows about them & their electrical properties as he built some too. They are supposed to be thoroughly decent - as in as good as they could ever need to be - cables.

uglymusic

It is, indeed. I read the thread.

Klotz La Grange appears to be a guitar cable.

bhobba

Hi Dave

I can highly recommend Ribbontek cables:

http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/cables.php

I have found nothing at any price to touch them.  When I purchased them I heard a comparison to some ridiculously overpriced $10K cables - and it was a joke - they blew them away.  I recently decided to connect my Foxtel to my system and initially used some junk cables.  Thought what the hell - I will get the good stuff.  Yep - probably overkill for that application but it did make an appreciable difference.

The only issue is they are not cheap - they may be a bit more than you want to spend.

Thanks

Bill

Mervyn

Dave

Good question but as I have tried very few cables with NVA other than NVA there is always a feeling the grass is greener etc etc. I have found the SSP's to be pretty well perfect with NVA and have not had the urge to look away but of course upgraditis does keep nagging us all. FWIW I had my SSPs switched to Neutrik profi plugs and so far have not broken any. As Alan said RD has re-visited SMA and tried them with Soundcords and reckoned they were as good as SSP with phono's. But as far as I understand you cannot use SSP's with SMA.

Recall someone trying MIT cables at the computer audio bakeoff at RD's last year albeit digital and they compared pretty favourably with SSP's.

For me I will stick with SSP's as anything will probably at best be only slightly better and probably cost a lot more to switch over to as I have an all SSP connected system.

 

uglymusic

I've stuck to NVA cables with my NVA kit, too. But now I'm facing changing away from SMA or using a kludge to continue doing so, I thought about another approach - using another brand of high quality cable that will allow me to have SMA connectors (at least at the power amp end).

My feeling is that my SoundCords with kludges are acting as a bottleneck, so I'm looking for a sensible way forward. The problem is, most of us with NVA kit have stuck with NVA's excellent cables. But it's nearly twenty years since I did any meaningful comparisons between NVA and other cables, so maybe it's time to start investigating a way of keeping SMAs with a better cable than SoundCords.

Alan

Mervyn - RD's had a fresh go with SMAs then? That's interesting, last we spoke he had no plans to go back to SMAs at all.
I agree with you about the probable cost of doing better than SSPs for sensible money - let's face it, any HiFi cable (SSPs included) aren't really 'sensible' money anyway. It took me a long time to get hold of my SSP set second hand.

Mervyn

Hi Alan I think RD was just experimenting with SMA again and has no plans to go back to them apart from possibly offering them as an option on the Statement range.

Dave has a bit of a dilemma whereby he needs SMA to RCA for his power amps. The wigwam guy could be worth a try for not a lot of outlay and at least he could confirm that his SMA adaptor plus Soundcords was a weak link in the chain.

Alan

Could be Mervyn. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he uses the EVA at all (that was the cause of all this - his TCS pre already has SMAs) - he has to have three adaptors hanging off the back just to make EVA work! I thought all the benefits would be lost in all that.

A couple of pairs of cheap cables to start with - one pair with SMAs at one end and the other with all RCAs - would be a good way to establish whether those adaptors are a problem. That would be a bit wasteful though, particularly if he then went on to comission a pair of decent cables equipped with SMAs.

uglymusic

Hi Alan I think RD was just experimenting with SMA again and has no plans to go back to them apart from possibly offering them as an option on the Statement range.

Dave has a bit of a dilemma whereby he needs SMA to RCA for his power amps. The wigwam guy could be worth a try for not a lot of outlay and at least he could confirm that his SMA adaptor plus Soundcords was a weak link in the chain.

Paul on the wigwam is going to be building me a set of cables. We're just firming up the exact specs. They're not going to be out-and-out silly specials, but should be of good quality.

uglymusic

Could be Mervyn. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he uses the EVA at all (that was the cause of all this - his TCS pre already has SMAs) - he has to have three adaptors hanging off the back just to make EVA work! I thought all the benefits would be lost in all that.

A couple of pairs of cheap cables to start with - one pair with SMAs at one end and the other with all RCAs - would be a good way to establish whether those adaptors are a problem. That would be a bit wasteful though, particularly if he then went on to comission a pair of decent cables equipped with SMAs.

I use the Eva because it's no worse sounding than the Statement Pre and has a remote - oh joy! Why shouldn't I use it?

Now, since I'm using SoundCords with a kludge, shouldn't something simpler made from good quality components/materials give me better sound quality? Then the Eva set-up should better the Statement Pre, no argument.

Alan

That will be very interesting to see, that's for sure. Remotes are great, aren't they? I thought I was happy without one, but I was wrong...

uglymusic

Remotes are great. If you have a streaming front end for your hi-fi, why the heck would you want to get up and fiddle with two separate volume controls?

BTW. The order is in with Paul, so I'll have some new interconnects to play with RSN! :-)

Alan

Keep me posted - My interest is well & truly piqued!

PS - is there a quick way to disable the IR on a mini (without sticking blutack on the front)....I really don't need it for the MAC, but it clashes with EVA.

uglymusic

Will do.

Turn off the IR on the mini by going to System Preferences, then Security, then tick Disable remote control infrared receiver.

Simples! 

:-D

Alan

Ah - it's in security! Intuitive my foot....

uglymusic

It look me a while to figure out where it could be.

Mervyn

BTW. The order is in with Paul, so I'll have some new interconnects to play with RSN! :-)

Good call Dave. Keep us posted to see if there are good NVA alternatives after all !

uglymusic

I will do. It'll be a week or so before they arrive, by the sound of it, as Paul is ordering some of the stuff.

uglymusic

Paul tells me he's making them this evening. Now all I need is a DAC ;-)

uglymusic

The race is on!

Which will arrive first?

The DAC? Or the cables?

Alan

Chicken - or egg?

uglymusic

Caiman - or egg?  :-D

uglymusic

The cables are pulling ahead! 

Paul tells me they are being posted today - that's despite rampant lurgy in his household. He's been great to deal with, so I'd recommend him wholeheartedly on that level.

More about the cables when they arrive.

uglymusic

Cables arrived yesterday.

Here they are:

Paul seems to have done a great job.

Mervyn

Look very professional Dave. What 'type' are they ?

Mervyn

ps Why give up JC just for Lent - what about Easter and Christmas ?

 

 

uglymusic

They're from Paul at Reference Fidelity Components, and are described as: '1 x 1.5m pair Klotz high grade OFC fully shielded ICs terminated with 24K gold plated SMA male connectors one end and Eichmann Copper Bullet Plugs on the other end. Cables colour coded for channel identification'.

HTH

I haven't plumbed them in yet. I'm awaiting good news on my replacement Old DAC from Keith. They should be arriving at his today.

Isn't giving up just for Lent? Should I be aware of something else? 

ItemAudio

I've always liked the SSPs. For a while they were one of our 'reference' cables at that price. In a professional capacity, we're always on the lookout for the best cable at each price point. We audition lots. Many seem massively overpriced.

Trouble is that tiny companies and men-in-sheds often struggle to maintain consistency, and the big corporate players build in so margin they represent bad value. Here's my top tips for star value, in no meaningful order:

1. Silver High Breed Quintessence
2. Chevron Audio silver litz + Eichmann bullets
3. Vintage Audio Labs silver core
4. Wireworld Starlight (the Equinox 3.5mm > 2x RCA cable is pretty fabulous, too)
5. Verastarr Grand Illusion (expensive, but clearly the best we've heard)
6. LAT IC300 (better than the cheaper Verastarrs)
7. MS Audio Litz silver core

Some we sell (because they're good), some we don't, but often recommend. I shan't name and shame all the cables we've auditioned and didn't like.

PAC

Hi all

I'm the guy who made Dave's cables and thought I had to join only if to respond to ItemAudio's comments about "men in sheds" and "tiny companies".

Please note that ALL my IC's are fully guaranteed, are fully tested for consistency and continuity including DC resistance (dry joints etc soon show up) otherwise they're scrapped and the customer gets a new set.  All my products are guaranteed as good as anything commercially available for a small fraction of the price.  Just thought I'd better clear that one up as I don't want my reputation tarnished by throw-away comments such as those above which aren't particularly helpful to someone like me whose livelihood depends on his reputation, and I do enjoy a good reputation thankfully.

Cheers

Paul

uglymusic

Thanks for the suggestions Mark. 

I'm not sure I agree with you about 'men in sheds', although surely you're part of that part of the industry, too, with your Item Audio products?

Paul's cables are really well put together. Hopefully I'll get them in the system this evening, and will be able to hear if they sound as good as they look!

Anyway, @ItemAudio and @PAC. You've both had your say, chaps.

Alan

Hi Paul - it's good to have you on board. I have read your contributions on the 'wam with interest.

PAC

Many thanks Alan, and it's a pleasure to be part of this forum. I'll introduce myself properly in the appropriate place

uglymusic

I was about to say some good things about @PAC's interconnects, but as he's the Valve Crusader, I'll just have to say they're crap  :-D

Alan

I had already decided as much!
[-(

uglymusic

OK. Just a quick write-up on Paul's (@PAC's) interconnects.

When compared to my SMA and three-piece kludge equipped NVA SoundCords, they win. Another layer of grime has been removed from between me and the music, and I've noticed some low-level detail I haven't heard before. They seem to be beautifully neutral, and don't seem to mess up anything - at least, I can't find anything to worry me after about three hours' listening.

To return to the starting point of this Discussion, though, I haven't got a clue if they're any better than SSPs. NVA Super Sound Pipes aren't available in the configuration Paul built for me, with SMAs at one or both ends, so I can't compare.

From the point of view of finding a way round the limiting factor of SoundCords in my system without replacing the SMA sockets on my TDSs, the problem appears to have been solved for less than the cost of a set of SSPs.

Oh, and Paul's interconnects don't snap at the plugs if you're less than gentle with them ;-)

Alan

That's a great result then - problem solved and an improvement to boot.

I must say as a (broadly happy) SSP user I am tempted to order a vanilla set to try here as I am all phono'd up, but my curiosity is writing cheques that I am just too tight to pay.......

uglymusic

It is a great result. I've moved the sound along a bit for not too many ackers, so that's exactly what I wanted.

Ordering a set with phonos is on the cards here, too. As the owner of a set of SSPs with a broken phono plug connection which haven't made their way into the office system, I think I may well have a chat with Paul about another set of his interconnects, but with phonos both ends. The winner stays in the big rig; the loser goes in the office.

But this month is espresso machine month (much delayed)!

PAC

Delighted they've worked out for you Dave, even if they are plugged into SS kit ;-)

uglymusic

That's a great result then - problem solved and an improvement to boot.

I must say as a (broadly happy) SSP user I am tempted to order a vanilla set to try here as I am all phono'd up, but my curiosity is writing cheques that I am just too tight to pay.......

Get that chequebook out, Alan. Let it see the light of day (even if it blinks and complains loudly)  :-D

ItemAudio

The expression 'men in sheds' is by no means pejorative: Ken Tyrell, Colin Pillinger, and Nelson Pass have done wonderful things in their sheds: it's a glorious tradition.

If you'd investigated it further, you'd have discovered that most (but not all) of the cables on my favourites list are made by men in sheds.

My point was made in the most general sense: that small volume, bespoke cables are a curate's egg - they are not usually as consistent in their performance from batch to batch, and the specification is often a moving target. After-sales depends entirely on the character, circumstances, health and holiday schedule of one individual.

'Branded' cables tend to be worse value in general, but benefit from economies of scale - such as  sophisticated manufacturing facilities - and continuity of after sale support. This is a fair-minded summary, I think:
http://www.latinternational.com/index.php/home/cable hype & demystification.html

My comment was certainly not addressed to you personally, Paul - I didn't even have you in mind when it made it. Apologies if you took offense at it. In fact, I'd like to hear your cable: perhaps we can buy a pair to audition?

PAC

No worries Mark, and no offence taken, I just needed to clear up the fact that my cables are consistent and tested as such.  They don't get sold if continuity testing is even 0.05 ohms astray of the targets I set for each pair.

Delighted to provide you with whatever you want for review, from the litz cylinder braid silver core, ditto in OFC through to the screened cables.

Cheers

Paul

Mervyn

Sounds like a good result all around Dave. And into the bargain we have another good VFM cable source in Paul.

 Go on get that chequebook and quill pen out Alan - you know you really want to !

Alan

Pah! You're not my friends at all....HumBug!

uglymusic

Sounds like a good result all around Dave. And into the bargain we have another good VFM cable source in Paul.

 Go on get that chequebook and quill pen out Alan - you know you really want to !

The only downside is that the window has been thrown so wide that questionable recordings are really being shown up for what they are. But I've been here before, and from my POV it doesn't matter. I don't listen to much that has its dynamic range crushed into a small box, so why should I worry about it?

If your tastes are different, then you need to look to a different kind of end result.

Mervyn

Wide clean windows are no downside for me. Agree dodgy recordings are shown up as they are but as we use NVA that's a given and has been for sometime ! You pays your money .........

uglymusic

Well, having got on so well with @PAC's Klotz interconnects with Eichmann Bullet and SMA terminations, I've just ordered a set that I can substitute directly for the SSPs between my Young and my Eva 2. The winner stays in the main rig; the loser goes to the office to replace the old and rather unloved (by me) Kimber Kables I'm using there at the moment.

Unfortunately, Eichmann plugs are as scarce as hen's teeth owing to the floods in Oz last year, apparently, so I've gone for broke with some even more expensive terminations - wtb Cu Nextgens.

ETA is Friday, so I can report back next week.

uglymusic

What are your bets?

PAC's contenders or RD's reigning champs?

Alan

I haven't a clue, but I suppose I am expecting SSPs to have better synergy with the amps.

I am watching with interest as I would consider flexibility to be a big plus in my closed cabinet.

uglymusic

I haven't a clue, but I suppose I am expecting SSPs to have better synergy with the amps.

I am watching with interest as I would consider flexibility to be a big plus in my closed cabinet.

I agree on both points.