It's actually quite straight-forward Alan. But more importantly, Keith says the HiFace Evo responds well to a decent PSU, and JKenny's mod on the HiFace Classic was all about clean power, so we expect the Young Dac to respond to a cleaner and better 15VDC power supply. This sort of PSU a large difference to my old Naim CDP and to my current pre-amp.
Is your PSU what Keith was telling me about on the phone?
Hi. First post. I'm in the US. This first post is mostly cut-n-pasted from my CA post, so sorry for the format.
I got my M2Tech young finally up and running a couple days ago.
The original power supply/wall wart was both a European plug and even with a US plug converter was problematic(read: dead) but my great dealer is sending me a new 18V ps that arrives today. In the meantime I sauntered down to Radio Shack and bought a cheap one. Voila, the DAC works, and the newly released MAC drivers work up to...yes, 32/384 (except 352k which is being fixed). I played some 24/384 files (downrez'd from 2L DSD) and some 32/192 files...it sounds good, especially given that it's dead cold, not broken in, uses a Rat Shack $20 power supply, and until I get my buddy's borrowed Liveline RCA's, uses cheap Guitar Center XLR-to-RCA adapters for my XLR Livelines. IOW, it has four strikes against it currently (all easily rectified) and still sounds ok so far. PS and cables arrive today, and I'm breaking it in as I type.
I've had a couple of quirks with my Mac driver so far, the worst being that when I powered the DAC off, then back on, I lost the driver and had to reinstall it. And as I mentioned above, in the MAC world the driver shows up to 384k, but skips 352k, which is a popular sample rate for DXD files from 2L, etc. You can set Audio Midi for 384k and the songs will play, but since I use PM or Amarra, who do this change themselves, the auto sample rate changer blows up on 352k. M2Tech already said they are aware and readying a new driver soon.
You've been doing more testing than I have with high res files.
FWIW, I'm looking forward to hearing a replacement for the wall-wart. The Young sounds fantastic in my system and is still improving with use, but there's always something to make it a bit better, isn't there?
It's actually quite straight-forward Alan. But more importantly, Keith says the HiFace Evo responds well to a decent PSU, and JKenny's mod on the HiFace Classic was all about clean power, so we expect the Young Dac to respond to a cleaner and better 15VDC power supply. This sort of PSU a large difference to my old Naim CDP and to my current pre-amp.
Is your PSU what Keith was telling me about on the phone?
No. Keith's commissioned a rechargeable battery PSU. Mine is just like a HiCap, but better and delivering 15V (or whatever). It's based on a match-box sized circuit by Teddy Pardo, and is simple to build. Teddy sells them ready-built as a "TeddyCap" and they take a HiCap to the cleaners. Keith's supply should be excellent.
Keith, Hi. No I haven't yet. The Young has been unstable enough (mutes all sound occasionally when powered up, loses drivers occasionally, etc) and I've been changing too many things (got my RCA Livelines today so no need for adapters, as well as received different, albeit switching, power supply) to do any sort of a/b yet. I'm not real thrilled with redbook sound yet, but some hirez sounds good. Ted
Ted Ho, there has been a glitch in the firmware which needs to be sorted, it seems to effect some units and not others, Marco is on the case though! If you need any help with your unit just let me know, very best,Keith.
Keith, Thanks for the input. I have an email into Marco regarding these issues, and he's been pretty responsive to date. Frankly, I'd selfishly love to know that this might be partially systemic, rather than my unit being an orphan, a one-off problem.
One additional quirk noticed again tonight (thought it was a one-time thing earlier and is why I didn't report on it then): My Young DAC seems to be swapping channels (left for right) at sample rate changes, and even during restarts of Pure Music, etc. I tried to see if it was Pure Music, but my Weiss is working fine...clearly some early Young driver issues...oh well, that's what firmware and driver updates are for.
It's a bit like AyreWave, almost like we're troubleshooting a beta version! I hope we're not in for firmware updates every month until the Young is finally fully ready for production.
@coops ; (Keith) - Marco asked if we might use software to reduce the volume to observe if crackling still occurs. I did this last night before bed - not during a listening session, but as a quick 5 minute experiment. I had to use iTunes as AW only supports the Ayre & Wavelength volume control, so I had the iTunes slider set very low & the pre-amp very high (grateful there were no pops!). Quite apart from sounding truly horrible - I hadn't realised how profoundly nasty the iTunes volume slider is - the crackling did seem to disappear on the two partial tracks I played.
Just a quick note on sampling rates - I don't know if it is only 44kHz where the crackling/clipping occurs, as most higher sample rate material seems to be more 'audiophile' - ie sensibly mixed, and - dare I? - boring...the ruder, rockier/funkier stuff I have that induces clipping just happens to be all at 44kHz.
One additional quirk noticed again tonight (thought it was a one-time thing earlier and is why I didn't report on it then): My Young DAC seems to be swapping channels (left for right) at sample rate changes, and even during restarts of Pure Music, etc. I tried to see if it was Pure Music, but my Weiss is working fine...clearly some early Young driver issues...oh well, that's what firmware and driver updates are for.
Swapping channels? Bloody hell, I've not experienced that one.
Young users of the world! Marco has fixed the various problems ( maybe should have done this before), there has been the odd DAC that didn't power up, well it powered up but no sound was forthcoming, the clicking problem, I believe you are aware of! A couple of units suffered from channel inversion? Anyhoo as soon as the new units arrive I will send them to everyone, please keep the current ones until them, Ted have a word with your dealer if he isn't helpful let me know and I will sort it out. Thanks again for your patience, it is very much appreciated Keith.
Keith, Thanks. By the way, with all my foibles and complaints, they aren't against Marco and M2Tech. He's been great, and it was my insistence to try such an early release product. I knew what i was getting into. I will ping my dealer. Thx Ted
I've just reported back to Marco that dropping the volume by 1db using the dithered vol control in PureMusic prevents the DAC from clipping. It seems the unattenuated USB output is ever so slightly too great. By turning the vol down 1db in PureMusic the M2Tech Young sounds v. nice indeed. I can't have a decent session tonite as Mrs Uz is a great big bag of snotty pus , but tomorrow we shall give it a decent run.
Ugly, sorry missed your question. The TeddyCap by be bought ready-made from Teddy Pardo, he would tune it give the output you require, say 15V in this case. You can also make or buy the pcb and for a few quid and a small transformer build your own. However I must caution that this is a live mains unit and as such you need to know how to work safely and test it so. Keith's battery PSU will do the job admirably, i'm doing this because I like what Teddy's circuits do (very smooth DC!), and because I've got the bits kicking around.
btw, really enjoying Kate Walsh's cover album, Peppermint Radio, and this album doesn't clip on the M2Tech DAC.
Andrew, I like Kate w\Walsh in general (her Tim's House album is v good, too) so need to get on this album, thx.
Is the needing-attenuation USB output from a MAC, or from a Hiface/EVO that you are speaking about? Are you suggesting we all attenuate 1db when listening to USB, or just those that have a "hot" hiface?
Hi Ted. Yes, Tim's House is excellent, as are her other albums. I saw her twice...and softie that i am, fell in love :x
On the DAC front, I got clipping when using my Hiface (standard model), or when the drive came out and I used usb cable. Marco asked me to try turning down the output from the Mac on PM by 1db or so and tell him what happened. So it's not a hot hiface that's the problem. Try turning the output down if you have a bit of software with a proper vol control, don't turn down iTunes though as i understand it degrades sound.
I'm a beta tester for some of Rob's Pure Muysic versions so I'm well versed in PM. I'll give the 1.0 db thing a try, thanks.
Now that I have both RCA and XLR ASI livelines I'll a/b the Young (via AES/EBU with Weiss DAC2 as interface) with the Weiss directly. My remote preamp inputs show the gain/level match very close. Will report back after the weekend.
Ted, In that case have you tried the v. recent version of PM? I did and got some static screeches on changing to hi-res files. As I was wrestling with the Young, I downgraded to the 1.65 version ... leaving the 1.7 version for another day.
EDIT: I must say Rob has been excellent when ever I've contacted him and responded at lightening speed!
I've just reported back to Marco that dropping the volume by 1db using the dithered vol control in PureMusic prevents the DAC from clipping. It seems the unattenuated USB output is ever so slightly too great. By turning the vol down 1db in PureMusic the M2Tech Young sounds v. nice indeed. I can't have a decent session tonite as Mrs Uz is a great big bag of snotty pus , but tomorrow we shall give it a decent run.
Ugly, sorry missed your question. The TeddyCap by be bought ready-made from Teddy Pardo, he would tune it give the output you require, say 15V in this case. You can also make or buy the pcb and for a few quid and a small transformer build your own. However I must caution that this is a live mains unit and as such you need to know how to work safely and test it so. Keith's battery PSU will do the job admirably, i'm doing this because I like what Teddy's circuits do (very smooth DC!), and because I've got the bits kicking around.
btw, really enjoying Kate Walsh's cover album, Peppermint Radio, and this album doesn't clip on the M2Tech DAC.
Thanks @Uzinusa. I had a look at the Teddy Pardo site, which is probably what I should have done in the first place!
I'm not a soldering iron type of guy, so I'll steer clear of home brew! And I'll also take your advice and wait for Keith's battery set-up. That'll mean server and DAC are battery-powered.
So he's technically happy? That makes me subjectively happy then.
It's early days yet with the YOUNG, ad there are obviously issues to overcome (perhaps our own fault as we were eager to try a very new product), but I am encouraged to see that the general consensus is the YOUNG is a decent DAC. From my point of view, I suspect it will be ahead of anything I have heard at home.
I hope Marco takes the positive from that, he deserves to proud of this DAC imo.
Having lived quietly with the Young for a wk now I am really looking forward giving it a good thrashing vs the Lavry. The Lavry is nice, and it will be interested to see if the Young can give it a run.
Ted - I just noted your comment on CA about muting on power up - mine won't lock to the MAC if I switch it on after the MAC. If it is on before I power the MAC up, it locks immediately. Is that you're getting?
Yes, I'm using PM 1.72a and yes I hear some screeching but have gone away from the Young USB for now anyway....screetching is the least of my USB problems. I'm listening to it via AES/EBU, and will try coax or toslink from my HDMi de-embedder to listen to 24/88 PCM'd SACD and some 24/192 BluRay audio too. The screetching is nothing compared to the huge thump/crack through my Weiss (when changing sample rates), whcih Daniel Weiss has commented about. It is benign through one of my preamps, but can throw my amps into shut down with another. I've learned to mute before it changes.
Alan, I need to play more attention to the order of what I do to make it act bad, but it seems inconsistent. Since Marco said my unit has all the foibles I'm not going to push it anymore, just will listen via driverless inputs until I get a new one.
Having lived quietly with the Young for a wk now I am really looking forward giving it a good thrashing vs the Lavry. The Lavry is nice, and it will be interested to see if the Young can give it a run.
I have had the problem with digital disortion too when playing some tracks. I use Mediamonkey on XP, connected via USB to Young. Duffy: Rockferry, track 1 was one of the worst tracks. I enabled volume control in Mediamonkey and turned down the volume to about 66%. Now there is not any distortion at all and some other advantages: The volume on my preamp is more equal to my other souces and I can control the volume via my iPod Touch (Monkeytunes). Hope this can help...
I forgot to post this here, as I did on CA. Sorry, I meant to make this my go-to Young DAC thread but somehow the forum is not sending me email thread update notifications like CA is, so I forget....anyway....
I a/b'd the Young via AES/EBU (fed from my Weiss DAC2) vs Weiss direct, both using ASI Livelines cables (one set RCA, one set XLR) and matched gain on both preamp inputs. The switching was almost undetectable, with a very very slight (no way you'd notice outside of instantaneous) increase in midrange weight and bass extension on a few songs....for the Weiss...but overall the a/b was as close as anything I've ever done. Pretty good, really, for a unit that is quite new and has the potential for clean 24/384 USB (as i've already heard during periods of driver stability).
I have had the problem with digital disortion too when playing some tracks. I use Mediamonkey on XP, connected via USB to Young. Duffy: Rockferry, track 1 was one of the worst tracks. I enabled volume control in Mediamonkey and turned down the volume to about 66%. Now there is not any distortion at all and some other advantages: The volume on my preamp is more equal to my other souces and I can control the volume via my iPod Touch (Monkeytunes). Hope this can help...
That's cool, Ted. Vanilla (the software we're running this community on) is a little different from some other forum software, so perhaps I should write some 'how-tos' for members.
The more I read, the more it seems an aftermarket power supply is quite beneficial for the YOUNG. Simon SQ is going to send me something in the near-ish future I understand so I can trial some alternatives.
I was looking at Teddy Pardo's site & he makes a proper power supply for the Arcam rDAC. I wonder if he might consider building one for the YOUNG? I know the YOUNG will sell less units, but I should think those who buy it would almost all be interested in investigating such a product.
Anyone know him well enough to ask? (While you're at it, how about the McMini...)
Well Teddy sells a PSU for another M2 Tech product - the Hiface Evo, so I don't see why he wouldn't consider bringing one out for their new DAC.
I should have a Young DAC here soon on demo. I'll be using it with my CD transport via SPDIF. Any comments on how good it performs on SPDIF please, compared to the competition? I realise that I need to use USB to unlock its full potential, but to date I haven't ventured into the world of computer audio.
I used it with a HiFace from the 'puter to start with, before the driver was ready. It was still very good, but not like it is over USB. From memory, it was still a good deal better than my Pioneer stable platter/Theta DS Pro Basic III combo, the digital I/C I used was an NVA pipe I think. TBH, I sold my last CD spinner recently & never even thought to try the YOUNG over S/Pdif.
If Ted B drops in he might have more to add - he seems to be running the YOUNG in most thoroughly.
Hi. I gotta get back to its USB input, as lately I've been only listening via AES/EBU (via Weiss) and the toslink (for HDMi de-embbedder from PCM'd SACD at 24/88). As stated earlier, the young AES/EBu is very good, matching the Weiss directly almost 100.0%. I also a/b'd the toslink in (via Atlona HDMi de-embedded PCM'd 24/88 SACD music from Oppo BluRay player) vs the latest HDTracks 24/192 of the same tracks (Jimmy Cobb, Jazz In The Key of Blue) via the Weiss, and it was also too close to call. Nice win there for the Young IMO..
Now I need to get back to USB and try the 1.0db down attenuation approach, and hope my driver cooperates for a listening session, without channel flipping or going weird on me.
Hi. I gotta get back to its USB input, as lately I've been only listening via AES/EBU (via Weiss) and the toslink (for HDMi de-embbedder from PCM'd SACD at 24/88). As stated earlier, the young AES/EBu is very good, matching the Weiss directly almost 100.0%. I also a/b'd the toslink in (via Atlona HDMi de-embedded PCM'd 24/88 SACD music from Oppo BluRay player) vs the latest HDTracks 24/192 of the same tracks (Jimmy Cobb, Jazz In The Key of Blue) via the Weiss, and it was also too close to call. Nice win there for the Young IMO..
Now I need to get back to USB and try the 1.0db down attenuation approach, and hope my driver cooperates for a listening session, without channel flipping or going weird on me.
Comments
I got my M2Tech young finally up and running a couple days ago.
The original power supply/wall wart was both a
European plug and even with a US plug converter was problematic(read: dead)
but my great dealer is sending me a new 18V ps that arrives today. In
the meantime I sauntered down to Radio Shack and bought a cheap one.
Voila, the DAC works, and the newly released MAC drivers work up
to...yes, 32/384 (except 352k which is being fixed). I played some
24/384 files (downrez'd from 2L DSD) and some 32/192 files...it sounds
good, especially given that it's dead cold, not broken in, uses a Rat
Shack $20 power supply, and until I get my buddy's borrowed Liveline
RCA's, uses cheap Guitar Center XLR-to-RCA adapters for my XLR
Livelines. IOW, it has four strikes against it currently (all easily
rectified) and still sounds ok so far. PS and cables arrive today, and
I'm breaking it in as I type.
I've had a couple of quirks with my Mac driver so far, the worst
being that when I powered the DAC off, then back on, I lost the driver
and had to reinstall it. And as I mentioned above, in the MAC world the
driver shows up to 384k, but skips 352k, which is a popular sample rate
for DXD files from 2L, etc. You can set Audio Midi for 384k and the
songs will play, but since I use PM or Amarra, who do this change
themselves, the auto sample rate changer blows up on 352k. M2Tech
already said they are aware and readying a new driver soon.
Very best,Keithe
Hi. No I haven't yet. The Young has been unstable enough (mutes all sound occasionally when powered up, loses drivers occasionally, etc) and I've been changing too many things (got my RCA Livelines today so no need for adapters, as well as received different, albeit switching, power supply) to do any sort of a/b yet. I'm not real thrilled with redbook sound yet, but some hirez sounds good.
Ted
If you need any help with your unit just let me know, very best,Keith.
My Young DAC seems to be swapping channels (left for right) at sample rate changes, and even during restarts of Pure Music, etc. I tried to see if it was Pure Music, but my Weiss is working fine...clearly some early Young driver issues...oh well, that's what firmware and driver updates are for.
It's a bit like AyreWave, almost like we're troubleshooting a beta version! I hope we're not in for firmware updates every month until the Young is finally fully ready for production.
@coops ; (Keith) - Marco asked if we might use software to reduce the volume to observe if crackling still occurs. I did this last night before bed - not during a listening session, but as a quick 5 minute experiment. I had to use iTunes as AW only supports the Ayre & Wavelength volume control, so I had the iTunes slider set very low & the pre-amp very high (grateful there were no pops!). Quite apart from sounding truly horrible - I hadn't realised how profoundly nasty the iTunes volume slider is - the crackling did seem to disappear on the two partial tracks I played.
Just a quick note on sampling rates - I don't know if it is only 44kHz where the crackling/clipping occurs, as most higher sample rate material seems to be more 'audiophile' - ie sensibly mixed, and - dare I? - boring...the ruder, rockier/funkier stuff I have that induces clipping just happens to be all at 44kHz.
A couple of units suffered from channel inversion?
Anyhoo as soon as the new units arrive I will send them to everyone, please keep the current ones until them,
Ted have a word with your dealer if he isn't helpful let me know and I will sort it out.
Thanks again for your patience, it is very much appreciated
Keith.
Thanks. By the way, with all my foibles and complaints, they aren't against Marco and M2Tech. He's been great, and it was my insistence to try such an early release product. I knew what i was getting into. I will ping my dealer. Thx
Ted
I like Kate w\Walsh in general (her Tim's House album is v good, too) so need to get on this album, thx.
Is the needing-attenuation USB output from a MAC, or from a Hiface/EVO that you are speaking about? Are you suggesting we all attenuate 1db when listening to USB, or just those that have a "hot" hiface?
Have a great weekend everyone,
Keith.
Now that I have both RCA and XLR ASI livelines I'll a/b the Young (via AES/EBU with Weiss DAC2 as interface) with the Weiss directly. My remote preamp inputs show the gain/level match very close. Will report back after the weekend.
It's early days yet with the YOUNG, ad there are obviously issues to overcome (perhaps our own fault as we were eager to try a very new product), but I am encouraged to see that the general consensus is the YOUNG is a decent DAC. From my point of view, I suspect it will be ahead of anything I have heard at home.
I hope Marco takes the positive from that, he deserves to proud of this DAC imo.
#-o
I mean to say the DAC had it, I don't think I did!
I have had the problem with digital disortion too when playing some tracks. I use Mediamonkey on XP, connected via USB to Young. Duffy: Rockferry, track 1 was one of the worst tracks.
I enabled volume control in Mediamonkey and turned down the volume to about 66%.
Now there is not any distortion at all and some other advantages: The volume on my preamp is more equal to my other souces and I can control the volume via my iPod Touch (Monkeytunes).
Hope this can help...
I a/b'd the Young via AES/EBU (fed from my Weiss DAC2) vs Weiss direct,
both using ASI Livelines cables (one set RCA, one set XLR) and matched
gain on both preamp inputs. The switching was almost undetectable, with
a very very slight (no way you'd notice outside of instantaneous)
increase in midrange weight and bass extension on a few songs....for the
Weiss...but overall the a/b was as close as anything I've ever done.
Pretty good, really, for a unit that is quite new and has the potential
for clean 24/384 USB (as i've already heard during periods of driver
stability).
Thanks, yeah, and have it checked off in my preferences (email notifications). Oh well, I check over here numerous times a day now.
I was looking at Teddy Pardo's site & he makes a proper power supply for the Arcam rDAC. I wonder if he might consider building one for the YOUNG? I know the YOUNG will sell less units, but I should think those who buy it would almost all be interested in investigating such a product.
Anyone know him well enough to ask? (While you're at it, how about the McMini...)
Well Teddy sells a PSU for another M2 Tech product - the Hiface Evo, so I don't see why he wouldn't consider bringing one out for their new DAC.
I should have a Young DAC here soon on demo. I'll be using it with my CD transport via SPDIF. Any comments on how good it performs on SPDIF please, compared to the competition? I realise that I need to use USB to unlock its full potential, but to date I haven't ventured into the world of computer audio.
I used it with a HiFace from the 'puter to start with, before the driver was ready. It was still very good, but not like it is over USB. From memory, it was still a good deal better than my Pioneer stable platter/Theta DS Pro Basic III combo, the digital I/C I used was an NVA pipe I think. TBH, I sold my last CD spinner recently & never even thought to try the YOUNG over S/Pdif.
If Ted B drops in he might have more to add - he seems to be running the YOUNG in most thoroughly.
Now I need to get back to USB and try the 1.0db down attenuation approach, and hope my driver cooperates for a listening session, without channel flipping or going weird on me.
Ted_B - which Weiss DAC were you comparing it to?