Tellurium Q Listen Pre-amp and Atom power amps

edited December 2012 in Amplifiers
You may have noticed some changes in my signature file recently. A couple of weeks back Colin (@Brain_dead) lent me three little boxes, around the size of my Young DAC, along with some TQ Blue interconnects and an extra set of Ultra Black speaker cables because my set are currently with @Jim.

It’s taken a while to run them in, but after Al’s pitch for the Best British Amplifier, I thought I’d better say something about these amazing pieces of kit. 

Let’s put this in context. I'm known as being the owner of possibly the UK's only pair of NVA TDS power amps. I've had them for nearly 20 years and haven't heard a single amp that has made me want to move on. 

For example, this year at Scalford, I found just one system I thought I could really live with. Andy's system based on Avondale amps, very similar Mac & Young front end and similar two-way speakers was almost as good as mine :-) . A Snell/Audio Innovations system also did some good things, but I'm not about to go to the tube side. The rest? No thanks.

The set-up I’ve been listening to is my Modded White MacBook/Audirvana+, Young DAC and outboard PSU feeding the TQ Listen Pre and then two Atom power amps bi-amping my Royd RR3s with TQ Ultra Black cable on the tweeters and TQ Graphite cable on the bass/mids.

Swapping out the TDSs and Statement pre for the Listen and Atoms has been a revelation. On balance, I prefer the TQs. 

I can't tell you how much I wasn't expecting that. 

I have to say that these amps are really special, and I think a lot of people will love them, especially because of their size. Imagine having proper high-end hi-fi at the size of a mini-system?

To understand why I think these amps are so great, I think the TQ speaker cables I've been loving are a great place to start. With these amps in the system, all the great things the cables have been doing - detail, stereo image, bass extension, texture, involvement - have been increased.

I must mention the bass range. Some time ago, a man who built our bookcases and had a bit of interest in hi-fi insisted that I had a sub-woofer hidden somewhere when I played him some music. At that stage, there was no TQ gear in the system. Now, I have even more tangible double basses and bass drums. Kick drums and floor toms are a visceral experience - a punch in the stomach even at only moderately loud levels. Electronic sounds shake the room, too.

These things go much louder than I thought they would. And, because the sound is so clean, it's very easy to keep pushing sound levels up until your eardrums are telling you it's getting loud! Shockingly, these tiny amps sound more weighty than the NVAs.

The challenge when using them is not to harm the RR3s, as there are no remaining drive units available. 

I have some recordings with treated piano, and you can really hear and feel the strings, metal frame and body of the instrument. Keith Jarrett's stamping on the Koln Concert is shocking in its immediacy.

I don't listen to much classical music, but I'm currently being hypnotised by Anner Bylsmer's performance of Bach's Cello Suites. He's sitting in a wonderfully reverberant acoustic, and the system is finding the odd 'noise off' that only adds to the experience of having a cellist here in the room.

I'm completely bowled over by the stereo image. The soundstage just occupies the whole room, and when the source material is up to it, the speakers disappear. Closing my eyes, it's impossible to hear where the speakers are. I've never felt that soundstaging was a great priority, but having heard what this combo does, it's now up there as a must.

I notice that Joe Akroyd claimed that the RR3s were designed to minimise phase distortion, something that Colin has been stressing with the TQ designs. I think there's some great synergy going on here.

The system, as it stands, is merciless with source materials. Some may not like this, but most of the material I listen to is of good quality (ie there's little 'chart' material , compressed to buggery, on my NAS), so I want as much illumination of what's in those files as possible.

The downside. The one downside, is that they can lack the fluidity of the NVA set-up, making the music sound a bit stiff and mechanical sometimes. They sometimes sound a bit cold (not in the temperature sense). But, in every other way, the TQs win out.

And, with everything else seeming so right, I've been just sucked into the music rather than worrying about coldness/dryness/lack of fluidity. 

In being home-friendly, they break the rules of needing huge great power supplies to get the kind of dynamics and grip these things give. I don't know what Colin has done, but he seems to have broken some hi-fi laws with these things.

However, I am a bit disappointed with the exterior design and finish. They're fine inside my cabinet, but if I had them in a room with nice decor I'd like to see some shiny or otherwise special faceplates, and the volume control knob is a letdown both in terms of appearance and feel. I also feel the typography is from a by-gone age.

I think they have a real chance to sell these to enthusiasts who struggle with WAF if they just raise the presentation quality a bit. Even my wife, Sam, who doesn't complain about my gear said how much she likes these little boxes.

I'd also like to hear the Atoms with a TQ passive, designed to pair properly with them and with phase distortion minimised. Alan's Lightspeed gave a glimpse into a world where a little more delicacy exists, but at the expense of stereo image, which collapsed back towards the speakers' plane.

I haven't tried the headphone amp yet, though. Just because I don't have a set of worthwhile cans. Col tells me it’s great because it’s one of his beloved Class A designs.

So, there you are. A real surprise. A set of brilliant amps that just happen to be tiny.
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Comments

  • I use a pretty similar setup to Dave, our systems are more similar than they are different. We may not listen to similar music much of the time, but I think we both listen in a similar way.

    I was lucky enough to spend three hours or so listening to this setup a week or two ago, and I have to agree with @Uglymusic's assessment almost 100%. I am genuinely gobsmacked that what I considered an absolute pinnacle amp setup, a reference, has been bettered. By tiny weeny little boxes! What trickery goes on inside I cannot imagine...

    Well done Colin, I sincerely hope these amps make it into production. I haven't really stopped thinking about them since (nor have I stopped being very jealous of Dave)!
  • As I own one of colin's amps, it would be interesting to see how these compare. They would need to be very good to oust my current toca . They sound interesting though as small is apparently beautiful in our household.
  • I don't know, either, Chris.

    Colin may insist that Class A is better, as he does have that fixation ;-)

    Where do you live?
  • Yes I have the dreaded fixation, Simon Lomax has both he like the A Class better.
    When Quickie as finished is DIY stuff for the home I will take him one to try out he has a TOCA and other to compare.

    Simon is on Face crap 

  • The Atoms are considerably cheaper than the current Class A beasty, aren't they?
  • edited November 2012
    Iridium is 5k I think. I'm in Loughborough light years from you southerners. :)
  • edited November 2012
    I'm not sure TQ have set a final price for the Atoms, but I think two Atoms come to something less than half of that.

    Oh, well. Can't offer you a listen and a cuppa
  • Dave ver..rrrry interesting. My ear's pricked up when I seen they could potentially replace the TDS's. Are the Atoms infamous 'class D' given their diminutive size ? Snipped RR3's and Atoms - times they are a changing
  • No. You'd think they were, but I understand they're some kind of Class A/B Colin cooked up.

    They're different from NVAs, but with the TQ cables, they're really great.
  • Thanks Dave for a nice mini review on the "Atom" Yes it a A/B amp and on silent only draws about 3W from the mains, so it runs cool.
    We have taken you points on board and will be discussing it to see it things could or should change.
    Also thank Alan for his nice private thoughts on the "Atom".
    And big thanks to Sam for here comments.
    Right back to work I have fixed the burnt and destroyed plastic component draws, I was going to ask Dave to put the photos up for so you all can have a giggle, then reflect about the poor components that would have been in A Class Amps  that all died.
  • Hi Col

    They weren't intended as private thoughts, it was just that Dave hadn't told you his thoughts yet. Would you like me to add what I said as well? - For the record, everyone else, I loved them.  :)
  • FWIW, I think you should add your comments.
  • Sounds like an interesting design. Is it as detailed as the NVA's Dave ? My experience with a Sugden A21 class A was that it was a little 'soft' around the edges and almost too fluid for me. But then my preference is for razor sharp clarity and dynamics. However there does seem to be very good synergy betwixt cables and amps.
  • It's even more detailed and dynamic than the NVAs.

    Yup. Colin's thing is eliminating phase distortion, so having amps and cables pulling in the same direction really makes for great clarity, detail and so on.
  • Alan post away I thought it was private stuff specifically that it plays piano, :ar!
  • Thanks Dave for a nice mini review on the "Atom" Yes it a A/B amp and on silent only draws about 3W from the mains, so it runs cool.
    We have taken you points on board and will be discussing it to see it things could or should change.
    Also thank Alan for his nice private thoughts on the "Atom".
    And big thanks to Sam for here comments.
    Right back to work I have fixed the burnt and destroyed plastic component draws, I was going to ask Dave to put the photos up for so you all can have a giggle, then reflect about the poor components that would have been in A Class Amps  that all died.
    I'm glad you're discussing my comments, Colin. I hope some of them find their way through to production.
  • This is a slightly edited copy of my thoughts, when I heard the system two weeks ago:


    I had certain expectations of your amps, given the TQ black is ever so slightly
    on the 'warm' side and the fact you favour class A amps. To be
    honest, I didn't feel any of those expectations held up (which is a
    good thing). I thought the amps were pacy, downright brutish in the way
    they put the music out into the room but still delicate in the way
    detail was handled. Perhaps they are still just ever-so-slightly on the
    warm side of neutral, but that is no bad thing (as the NVA can be
    ever-so-slightly
    on the strident side).

    My comments are based on the system as a whole (I did not know the Listen pre/Headphone amp is already in production when I wrote this)

    The soundstage was wide, the image thrown
    was truly extraordinary. I have never heard such a fullsome, solid image
    before, and it became really addictive. I have to wonder if the imaging
    is down you TQs obsession with phase, the cables do something
    special and hard to describe with the soundstage and so do these amps.
    Is it really possible that your active pre is more phase coherent that
    my passive LDR? This is astonishing. Really Col, you have built
    something special here.

    On the subject of soundstage, Dave and I
    put my Lightspeed LDR in to try it out. It had certain good effects
    (more about this in a minute) but it caused the soundstage to collapse,
    it was no longer as three dimensional as with the TQ pre. It wasn't bad
    by any stretch, but what Listen was doing in concert with the Atoms was really amazing.

    It
    was interesting to compare the two Pre's, I enjoyed both for different
    reasons. I did feel the Atoms really wanted to be driven with an active
    pre. With your TQ pre, there was something about the bass, how it
    projected into the room, the 'shapes' it threw. The Lightspeed did very well,
    but the bass was just slightly diminished  - but the lightspeed didn't allow the power
    amps to have quite so much control. I only really noticed this
    with Rock/blues or electronic music - on acoustic bass there was no
    issue at all.

    There was one area where I might have preferred the
    lightspeed, it seemed to have a small edge when it came to getting out
    the way, being invisible. The Listen has just a smidgen of character to the Atoms, when
    it is removed you can hear it. I suppose it is swings and roundabouts,
    both pre' seemed to be amazing but the preference would be down to the
    listener. I think I would be happy to live with either, except for one
    thing - the huge soundstage thrown by the TQ pre. Having experienced
    this, I will always want that in my system but doubt I will ever
    achieve this. Obviously the Atoms are a key part of this, but I thought the Listen & the Atoms go so well together they are almost an integrated solution.

    (This makes me think that I would like to hear
    your LDR design (remember you mentioned this a while back - with green
    LEDs?) - and perhaps something like a PASS B1 buffer, so those power
    amps have the same verve they do with your TQ pre. I did plant such an
    idea in Dave's mind, so I apologise if he brings this up... )

    Really
    the only criticism I can find is a certain dryness in the treble, a
    thin-ness with some things. I noticed it with Hi-hats and tightly tuned
    snare drums (I used to drum myself). Dave had a similar thought, but
    said that this had been progressively improving, and was far far better then it
    had been. I am confident it will improve further with time - but I
    honestly am nit-picking here. I could live with this right now.
    Interestingly, I didn't think the Lighspeed changed this, so I would say
    that was more a character of the power amps. Otherwise, the power and ability to convey more detail than I have ever heard simultaneously is addictive. By the way, they were spellbinding on Piano work, the immediacy of the note being struck was so just dynamic.

    Col, Dave's system is
    very similar to mine. We both use a MAC source, the same DAC (and power
    supply), the same type of amps (NVA statement), similar speaker cables
    (TQ) and identical speakers. We like the same things, but Dave is way
    better at expressing what he hears and analysing things. I know how his
    system sounds - but I have never heard it sound so fine. --  I don't know how much of that is down to
    the amps themselves, or the cables, or a
    kind of synergy which overtook the whole system, but it left me pretty stunned.

    If I were ever in a
    position to spend three grand or so on an amplifier system, I would go
    straight for these. I am convinced you have cracked something
    fundamental, after hearing them for a few short hours.

    There it is then, I wish I had spent longer with them. As they are pre-production test items I was trying really hard to be critical, so my nit-picking should be seen in that context.
  • Well today just set Marc`s listening with his 2 Atom`s and a Listen with the Phono amp on very nice B&W speaker and listened to Eric Clapton and Piano , with a smidgen of Dire Straits and it sounded lovely.
    So now he wants to sell is Naim kit.
  • Another one smitten...  :x
  • Is the "Atom" mono? Thx
  • I had the listen headphone amp for a week or so earlier this year and using HifiMan HE6's I have never heard music sound so breathtaking!
  • The Atom is stereo, so I'm bi-amping.

    Colin keeps telling me to listen to the Listen with headphones, but I don't have any that qualify as hi-fi!

    As headphone amp, the Listen is a Class A design. I believe a different circuit is used for the pre, but I'm sure Colin will correct me if I'm wrong.
  • Atom Stereo but Dave is using it in bi-amp mode.
    The Listen HP out is A Class same design as the 20W amp but only 1W normal and 5W HE version.
    The Pre-Amp section auto selects and has a special Feed Back circuit to compensate for long cable lengths.


  • Must borrow some decent cans. Anyone?
  • Hienz baked bean I have and Sennhieser (spell checking bad today more R@D fodder).
    I send them over Dave
  • Thank you Colin
  • The Heinz are good, but you really need the upgraded ones (with the little sausages in). Otherwise, go for some electrostatic ones (Ravioli).
  • I got my longer Ultra Black cables back yesterday. Just trying to find the time to get them back in the system and reposition the RR3s. They work better further apart, but I'm a bit concerned that the bass is going to get overpowering as one of them gets closer to a corner.

    But you never know until you try ;-)
  • Given the bass response on your system, it's more likely the sound waves will push the corners of your room apart along the seam...
  • :-)

    Come on, they're only little speakers ;-) And we all know what the physics says!
  • Like you, I've had visitors insist I gave a sub hidden somewhere... with those Graphites in place, I imagine whales cruising along the channel know what you are playing!
  • Ah das U-boats unter der channel :-)
  • It's not just the Graphites. The bass is a product of the Atom and the Graphite.
  • Hi
    Anyone tested the Atom compared to Iridium (I like/own that one) ??

  • I had the MINI DAC working at last today it sound very nice.
  • Tell us, both coax / USB inputs...please :-)

  • USB only it will be going in a pre-amp later this year, but it is so small about match box size.
    The USB B socket is bigger than the electronics could almost fit in to a cable. mmm now that a nice idea thanks. 
    :-B

    No feeling good so I am of to bed good night all.
  • Night and sleep well..

    I like the cable-idea..


  • Sleep well Col, hope you feel better.

    I agree with Lasse, sounds like a great idea.
  • Done drawn up pcb done now to try it, no sleep tonight
  • You sleep now, here..grr get well, 


  • Done drawn up pcb done now to try it, no sleep tonight
    Colin! Go to bed! [/cross mum voice] You have to rest mate!

    And no designing PCBs under the blankets with a torch, y'hear?
  • Colin. Behave!

    Take some Horlicks to bed and get some sleep ;-)

    The DevilSound DAC was/is in a cable, was/isn't it?
  • It was - Devilsound became Halide designs. I think that DAC is still around.

    My streamer 2 is an inline USB DAC, it's about the size of a flattened mars bar and takes its power from the USB line.
  • Hi 
    Yes this one will be small,


  • After the huge Class As in the past, have you now got a fixation on small?
  • Big performance from small boxes...

    I was reading what someone thought of the Iridium Class A amp, I would be surprised if the Atom was able to beat that. Beat most other stuff, to be sure, but not it's big brother!
  • I wouldn't expect it to, either, given the price difference. But the Class A is a different kind of beast, presumably without the grunt of the Atom (or a pair of Atoms).

    As a bit of a sucker for horns (the right ones), but not much of a tube nut, the Class A may make a lot of sense when I get a big pile of ackers without a home ;-)
  • I would be shocked if the Class A monster didn't have the ability to drive a masonry wall, having spoken to Paul (quickie) before about SECA/TOCA. The only thing that made this impractical for my home was power consumption, seeing as my amps need to be powered up permanently.

    @Chrisb bought the one I procrastinated over.
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