Opinions?

PAC

Just finished a set of stands for the Tannoys. Looking to get a little feedback if I may on appearances, the pictures can be found here.

Must say that I am enjoying the "Tannoy sound" warts and all.  Still trying various amps even though the 845 has the lead in the matching stakes.  Big, bold sound with fabulous bass now they have bedded in some.

uglymusic

They look really nice Paul.

If I was into the Tannoy thing, I'd probably have a pair.

PAC

Thanks David.  Lifting the tweeters to ear level seems to make all the difference with these and the standard spikes and shoes don't seem to be as effective at grounding unwanted resonances as just sitting the things directly on solid stands.  Really has cleaned up the mids.

Docfoster

They look great. Very in keeping.
Hope your back coped ok lifting the beasts on to them! Phew.

PAC

Hi Ben

actually, I had help lifting them (rather I didn't do any lifting!).  My back was damaged during surgery I had last week on my hip, so I'm on crutches for now...can't walk let alone lift anything.  Lost the feeling and partial use of one leg although the hip surgery was a success!

Alan

It was a success....? Damn Paul, I hope the 'issues' you describe are not going to be permanent!! I understand you were a bit close to the floods too?

uglymusic

I hadn't realised you were going for surgery. 

I hope you get back on your feet again soon, and your back damage gets sorted.

PAC

Thanks guys

I'm philosophical about these things as me being upset or angry doesn't change the outcome.  I went in with prolapsed discs knowing there was a risk, and when put in traction during a 3 hr op, the parting of my right hip joint damaged the nerves in my back.  We'll see how physio goes! May need spinal surgery but that would have had to come in time anyway.  Yes, came close to being flooded out 2 days out of hospital and had to move out ofr a day or two but (fingers crossed) back to normal!  Couldn't make it up really.

uglymusic

I'm so glad you can be philosophical. You're absolutely right - getting worked up about it doesn't change the outcome.

Docfoster

All the best Paul.
Must get together soon!
Fingers crossed re. flooding - you and me both!

Brain_Dead

Hi Paul,

On this same page and link a nice cable description worth a read.

 http://referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/audio-cable-quality-science-or-myth/

Interesting I recalled we had a chat about phase over a year ago, I thought you had then concluded it could not effect the sound at all. I am so glad you have done some more research into it, cool stuff.

Col 

Alan

Thanks guys

I'm philosophical about these things as me being upset or angry doesn't change the outcome.  I went in with prolapsed discs knowing there was a risk, and when put in traction during a 3 hr op, the parting of my right hip joint damaged the nerves in my back.  We'll see how physio goes! May need spinal surgery but that would have had to come in time anyway.  Yes, came close to being flooded out 2 days out of hospital and had to move out ofr a day or two but (fingers crossed) back to normal!  Couldn't make it up really.

Paul, I hope the waters have stayed away. I guess you could always use one of the Tannoys as a rowing boat...could get all the family on one of those!

I really mean it when I say that I hope the physio-therapy resolves the problems for you. You need spinal surgery you say? Let's hope that that it won't be too soon. It might be hard to perform on a raft!

I think you started this thread for feedback on your speaker stands? - They look very nice, a good match for the cabinets. Do Tannoy not make something themselves? I am surprised that your aftermarket stands look like factory items, they match so nicely. I think they need little brass 'RFC' plaques to match, although people might think you nicked the PA system from Cardiff!!

PAC

Thanks Alan!  I checked with Tannoy last month and no, they don't make stands for the Prestige range.  I also checked with some of their importers in Hong Kong and Japan, and they don't make dedicated stands for them either.  I whiled away several evenings sketching up some designs and eventually settled on the ones in the photo.  I didn't want to compromise on wood choice either or offer something which was below par in terms of furniture quality.  The basic timber before cutting and wastage is close to £200 per cubic foot!  Folk should be able to appreciate that with the work and finishing that then goes into them, they are not a high profit item, as I wanted (like all RFC's gear) to offer great quality and VFM.

An RFC plaque might be a nice touch but what I may also consider is a Tannoy model badge (with Tannoy's permission), but have refrained from either to keep costs (hence price) down.

PAC

Hi Paul,

On this same page and link a nice cable description worth a read.

 http://referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/audio-cable-quality-science-or-myth/

Interesting I recalled we had a chat about phase over a year ago, I thought you had then concluded it could not effect the sound at all. I am so glad you have done some more research into it, cool stuff.

Col 

Hi Col

I think the main difference since we last spoke is that I've gone into more detail and fleshed out things more clearly.  I had never discounted phase accuracy or rather phase distortion in cables, what I had discounted was that in terms of distortion, it could be significant compared with,say, a loudspeaker/room phase distortion.

Its basic electronics that cable geometry affects self impedance, skin depth and hence phase relationships in signals.  This occurs though at frequencies way above audible fundamentals, but since most notes aren't pure fundamentals but contain many overtones or harmonics above the audible range, then theoretically, phase distortion still happens so the point being made is that cable geometry can be calculated to keep it low, audible or not, for the sake of good engineering practice.  

It may be considered an unnecessary consideration but the effort needed to make things (or select cables) which exhibit good geometry and materials to get things as good as they can be got, without breaking the bank is one that I consider worthwhile.  It costs no more than not getting it right and no special claims are made, other than there is an optimal geometry for phase accuracy as well other considerations such as practical ones of reliability of joints etc.  Hope this makes sense!

Brain_Dead

Paul, 

I have been doing this and electronic for nearly 50yrs so the explanation you have just given was old stuff to me.

 But I am sure other will read it with interest.

 

PAC

I'm sure it is Col;  at least I'd have hoped it was 

If it's of interest, then it'll have served its function.

Alan

A pleasure to have the two of you around, for us young grasshoppers. =:)

stewartwen

I am often surprised at the way people install their speakers..................just plonking them on to the floor, regardless of the floor coupling devices, is a recipe for disaster. I have found from my own experience that the centre of the treble unit should be on axis with the ear! My ears are 32 inches off the ground when sitting on my listening seat. So the treble unit should be 32 inches of the ground!
So to calculate your ideal speaker height...................32 inches minus the height of the centre of the treble unit from the bottom of the cabinet equals the height of the stands.
Simple.
S

uglymusic

So you buy speakers with the treble units 32 inches from the ground?

Alan

I think he means to use stands, spikes or blocks akcherley!


This is an odd one, give the relatively wide dispersion of most modern tweeters. I don't see why it should so critical, but I agree, it is. My RR3s have very short stands, which are bonded to 1 1/2" thick granite to stop children knocking them over. They are still too low (or my sofa too high), so out of interest I stuck the bases of some old Minstrels underneath them, complete with spikes.

Height wise, they are spot on wrt tweeter/ear height, and they sound far more focused when it came to imaging.

I think it is ATC that publish optimum angles of dispersion from their speakers?

uglymusic

Oh. I see.

Silly me! :-)

PAC

Wide dispersion some speakers may be but they are designed (or at least should be) for a flat 0n-axis response which in the horizontal plane means having the tweeters at ear height.  Despite the claims for wide dispersion, most loudspeakers will have a HF roll-off as you move away whether horizontally or vertically from the "sweet spot"...that's just physics.  Wide dispersion these days could mean 15 degrees over say 10 degrees.  The exception is omni-directional designs such as the ones that MBL use.

The stands for the Tannoys (just to make it clear) are custom built so that the customer has the tweeter set to ear level.  For some this will mean that no stands are necessary but for most, the Turnberrys or Stirlings will need raising.  Mine need to be at 38 inches, and that's where they're at now.  It makes a big difference to perceived SQ, especially sound staging and presence.

stewartwen

I think it is ATC that publish optimum angles of dispersion from their speakers? at one time most L/S mfrs used to publish polar response patterns of their loudspeakers, these days..................................
The reason I posted was because I have seen, and heard, many classic L/S just plonked on the floor. But the owners have invested in all sorts of uber expensive cabling to make them sound better. But they obviously didn’t know, or couldn’t be bothered to attend to the correct placement of the L/S.
Some years ago if you phoned the mfr and asked for advice re placement you would be told of the importance of the treble unit height!
Tannoy DC units do suffer from this as well. And the inclusion of a supertweeter is not necessarily  the answer! Far better to raise the height and attend to room treatment than to spend all sorts of money on additional treble units.
S

Alan

Aha! So what is needed is some kind of bespoke Tannoy speaker stand, specified to the correct height in your own room. Interesting... :-?

stewartwen

Nah Paul’s stands are very finely crafted pieces of art! Far better to get in touch with Paul and he will construct a pair of stands especially for the end user.
S

Docfoster

Paul's old stands were far superior.
Plastic toddler stools they were. Beautiful imaging...
;-)

PAC

Paul's old stands were far superior.
Plastic toddler stools they were. Beautiful imaging...
;-)

Ah yes, the finely crafted artisan bespoke units where each was hand selected by a Dursley maiden at the "framing, printing and basketware" shop before carefully packaging in recycled plastic bags to ensure the finish wasn't tarnished.  They even came with instructions on assembly.  Finest Polypropylene plastic stools....£7.99 each and a great Harbeth SHL5 stand!