Amp Comparison

BrumjamBrumjam
edited December 2012 in Amplifiers
As I eluded to in my Hypex thread, I have a few hours tonight to compare my finished Hypex monoblocks against a recently purchased Art Audio Quintet power amp.  The Hypex nCore modules are the new class D kid on the block.  They output 200w into 8ohms.

The Art Audio valve amp I've purchased is class A and kicks out a whole 15 watts.  I'd guess this particular amp is about 8-10 years old.  It has been heavily modified by Definitive Audio and in the words of the amp's designer is 'maxed out'.  While the Hypex amp cases are barely warm to the touch, the Art Audio comfortably keeps my small listening room toasty.  This amp uses EL34 valves.  So, to completely different types of amp technology to compare.

I'll also be adding my valve pre in between DAC and amps to see what effect this has.  Music is being streamed from my MBP, via my router to the network bridge card in my DAC.  This is PS Audio's recommended connection because the bridge has its own jitter reduction (digital lens in marketing speak) tech in addition to the digital lens used by all other inputs.  I'm using PS Audio's eLyric Music Manager - not a patch on iTunes....I think 'functional' is the best word to describe it.  PS Audio are working on a way to allow Audirvana and similar programs to stream to the bridge card by some sort of virtual sound card software.....this update can't come soon enough.

I will break this review into separate posts so as to avoid loosing one great big post.






Comments

  • BrumjamBrumjam
    First up is the PS Audio DAC connected directly to the Hypex amps using the XLR outputs from my DAC.  PS Audio (and many others) consider this to be the optimum way to connect their DAC to amplification.

    The sound is crystal clear with plenty of detail.  This combination gives you a bare bones view of the recording....if the recording quality is crap then it will certainly sound dreadful through this combo.  My speakers are brilliant for comparing different pieces of kit because they (to me) impart no character on the sound whatsoever.  

    For all the detail I feel this combination is slightly lacking in weight and dynamics.  The Black Key's track 'I'm Not the One' has some big dynamic swings that the Hypex modules in conjunction with my speakers just don't convey. Monty Alexander's cover of 'Could you be Loved' is a great recording but again, when the band kicks in a few moments into the track I don't get the thump of bass that is evident with other amps I've heard with my speakers.

    It's difficult to describe in layman's terms what I'm hearing, but it sounds in a way like the Hypex amps don't have enough power (current??) to really drive my speakers (88db, 4ohms nominal load, so not, in theory a problem)

    Next step is to insert the pre-amp and see what difference this makes.
  • JustinJustin
    Looking forward to the next post James!!
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Inserting my pre-amp means moving away from the balanced connection recommended by both Hypex and PS Audio.  The chain is now RCA out of the DAC into the pre, then RCA out of the pre into an XLR adapter on the Hypex amps.

    Back to the Black Keys track and there's no doubt the introduction of valves has softened the sound ever so slightly. What it has also done is improved the weight, scale and tone on this track. To my ears it's far more enjoyable than the direct DAC to amp connection.  I have no idea why this should be - common sense suggests the fewer components in the chain the better....right?

    Each piano note on 'Could you be Loved' sounds more realistic, there's a greater sense of decay around each note than the direct route.

    Overall a far more pleasing presentation.  Certainly less analytical but it makes me grin like a Cheshire cat :-)


  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Time to swap the Hypex modules out and replace them with the Art Audio Quintet.  Unlike the Hypex modules this amp needs time to warm up before it sounds its best, so this is a good time for me to recharge my wine glass  :)
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    What news...?
    Hope you didn't overdo the vino.
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Plenty of vino left Doc  [-O<


  • DocfosterDocfoster
    Is that good or bad...?
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Probably a bad thing  ;))

    A few initial observations about the Quintet amp:

    1)  It's not as resolving as the Hypex modules at low volumes.  The Hypex amps seemingly offer the same level of detail at quiet or loud volumes.
    2)  The room is now noticeably warmer.
    3)  There's transformer hum albeit only noticeable in very quiet passages.
    4)  The sound is weightier/punchier than the Hypex amps, albeit at the expense of a small amount of resolution.

  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Time to go back to the Hypex amps.  I've listened to a decent number of tracks with the Art Audio amp.  It improves dramatically with more volume.  It may only output 15 watts but it drives my speakers superbly.
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    Seems like you've had a good night!
    :-)
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    As a final (for tonight anyway) comparison I listened to Oli Brown's 'Not a Word to Say' and Paul Weller's 'If Only I Could be Sure' with both amps.  At lower volumes the Hypex amps edge the Art Audio which seems to loose detail at below normal listening levels (which for me is quiet with my daughter sleeping directly above my listening room).  However at normal to loud listening levels I prefer the Art Audio amp.  It's only in doing this direct comparison that I realise the Hypex modules have a slightly sterile quality.  They don't seem to completely let go and let me get really involved in the music.  The Art Audio on the other hand digs deeper into each performance.  Sure it's not as resolving and the highs aren't as extended, but frankly who cares when I can get closer to the performance.

    One thing that surprises me is that for all the talk of class D amps doing bass really well I simply do not hear it with my speakers.  Maybe with a different pair of speakers the Hypex might perform very differently.

    On a side note PS Audio are bringing out a Hypex UCD based amp next year.  It will however use a class A output stage.....could this be the best of both worlds? 
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Further (wine induced) ramblings....

     - Is it practical having an amp on which I could cook breakfast in the house?  Probably not.
     - Are the Hypex amps cheaper to run? Yes.
     - Can I use the Art Audio in a 5.1 surround sound system?  No for several reasons.

    I feel content with my DAC and speakers.  Choosing a suitable amp is proving much harder than I thought it would!

  • DocfosterDocfoster
    How long have you got to make the decision?
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    No rush.  Just that tonight was the first chance I've had to sit down and do some serious listening to both amps.  What I need is the sound of the Art Audio amp but in a Hypex-sized box and about half the heat :-)
  • AlanAlan
    That sounds like a wonderful evening James! I am envious of you.

    Isn't it always the way? Once you get past a threshold in ability, it's down to personal preference, nothing else. Sure, arguments could be made about which amp is technically better, or musically better (perhaps two different answers there), but it might be hard to live without either of them.

    It does seem to me that the Vivids might not synergise well with the Hypex, for whatever reason. My personal expectation would be in preference of the Hypex all and every day, and looking at what you listen to and the various kit that's gone through your system, I would have expected we are listening for similar things.

    I'm so glad you're enjoying the journey. ;)
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Technically the Hypex modules are a tour de force. I thought they would sound better than the Art Audio amp but like you say Alan, they don't gel with my speakers, which goes to show how worthless spec sheets are when choosing kit.

    It did dawn on me last night that perhaps I'm approaching my system the wrong way round. Maybe I ought to try some speakers with larger drivers in bigger cabinets.....these might give me the weight and dynamics I'm looking for.
  • AlanAlan
    Dunno. Have you ever tried actives?... :D  There are some ATC SCM100 Towers in the pfm classifieds...

    I also think you might need to look at some Impulse H2s with your all valve set up.

    Maybe I am being unfair though - I have no idea about Vivid audio, I had never even heard of them, far less heard them. Do you know what amplification the speakers designers developed the speakers on?
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Yes, I've tried active Genelecs and Adam's. Heard active ATC's at Scalford last year and didn't think much of them. Impossible to tell how they might sound in my system without a home demo but I think size rules them out.....very low WAF as well. The Event Opal's look interesting and would be amazing for home cinema as well as hifi.

  • coopscoops
    The high output impedance of the valve amp will change the FR of your speakers, I would expect a very different sound,
    Keith.
  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Yesterday I heard my Shindo pre and Hypex power amps driving a pair of gigantic Tannoy Westminsters.  For those not familiar with quite how big these speakers are:


    The Tannoy owner drives them with an Almarro 318B 18w tube amp.  The Almarro sounded very nice but it was a bit too warm and cuddly sounding for my tastes with no decent bass extension.  A nice sound but it didn't grip the speakers.  On went my amps and the speaker owner sat there in shock as he heard his speakers delivering enormous tightly controlled bass for the first time.  We played James Blakes 'Limit to your Love' and the bass was visceral (15in bass drivers!).  

    Over the course of the afternoon we played a wide range of music and I was really impressed with my amp combination.  There was a synergy with the Westminster's that I don't get with my speakers. 

    If I ever had the space/won the lottery then the Westminster's would be high up on my audition list.
  • Brain_DeadBrain_Dead
    edited January 2013
    The Westminster are great speaker I drove them with Magnum A100 400W RMS monsters.
    Played Pink Floyds Brick in the Wall and has the Helicopter flew in my friend started to vomit from the deep well extended bass. I sold them to LWT years ago in the 1988;s  Also Steve Boxshall Audio in Cambridge had a pair and windows in the shop front moved changing the reflextion of the road to the beat of ABBA amazing.
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    "These speaker will make you throw-up".
    Excellent selling point. ;-D
  • AlanAlan
    I'd have them on such a recommendation.

    I am not a fan of the general 'Tannoy sound' per se, but there are good and bad examples, I admit. But when you get towards the top of the tree, like those Westies, I would be expecting truly great things.
  • sovereignsovereign
    Interesting comments.
    Whilst my NVA amps needs repairing, they were used as a football by a courier firm, I am using a £50 Tamp. with open baffle speakers, and a valve buffer.
    Totally incredible what it can do.  I love the fact that they are lightning QUICK, FULL of detail but I think a little cold, or leave me feeling a little uninvolved. But INCREDIBLE little amp!
  • Brain_DeadBrain_Dead
    Now NVA  amps should never be used as a football.
    You would break your toes.

  • uglymusicuglymusic
    I'd have them on such a recommendation.

    I am not a fan of the general 'Tannoy sound' per se, but there are good and bad examples, I admit. But when you get towards the top of the tree, like those Westies, I would be expecting truly great things.
    I used to love my DC2000s back in the day.

    But I don't get on with big Tannoys, or at least with the systems people build round them.
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