SPOILER THREAD - Star Wars: The Force Awakens

edited December 2015 in Movies
As per the thread title, this thread will contain spoilers.
For the non-spoiler thread see here.

I watched the film yesterday, and really enjoyed it. I smiled a lot and cried quite a bit and chuckled a few times.
Overall I felt it was both an excellent film in its own right, and a modernisation of the original saga. It had some of the "feel" of the Star Wars films I watched as a child, but also felt like a more contemporary movie in terms of its sophistication.
The old stroy elements and characters were knitted in neatly with the new aspects. If anything some of the old characters played a larger part in the film than I was expecting.
Effects were impressive and convincing, combining real models and sets with CGI trickery.
Music was highly evocative and well done.
One of the ways it felt more like 2015 was in terms of the charaterisations. Ther personality of some of the older characters such as Han Solo were given far more room to breath. Han, who is a pretty one dimenisional loveable rogue stereotype in the original trilogy was placed in situations where his other facets could be convincingly expressed. Pleasing also that the friendship between Han and Chewie was also well acknowledged. Both touchingly and ammusingly.
But, it was the new characters that really stole the show for me. I loved the way that new baddie, Kylo Ren was so conflicted: always at risk of being seduced by "the light" he regalarly prays (sometimes to Darth Vader himself) for strength to remain committed to the dark side. Personally I would have liked to have seen more of this. I would imagine that this will be further explored in the next installment. Storm-Trooper-with-a-conscience Fin struggled with his senses of integrity, mission and honesty for the first part of the film. And, scavanger loner Rey provided my favourite ever female lead. I'm afraid that when I realised the lead of the new Star Wars film was likely to be a female I felt disappointed. Previously, when I've watched films with female leads I've never really clicked with them as much as I do with movie's in which the leading character is a man. I'd always assumed that this was because I'm the sexist that some people tell me I am. But, when I walked out of the cinema yesterday after being blown away by what Rey brought to the film, I wondered how it was I'd got to the age of 42 without ever before being presented with a film with a decent female character. She was a brilliant hero - confident without being cocky, frightened without being pathetic, competent without being invulnerable. In the first few scenes in which she meets Fin they have some amusing exchanges in which she explicitly sets out her stall, but throughout the film Rey's character presents brilliantly. The closest thing I can compare her to is Ripley from the Aliens, BUT Rey is much more human than Ripley: Whereas Ripley is basically a superhero male character played by a female actor, Rey is an aspirartional figure who represents all the most important and the best bits of humanity; she feels very more real: If I had a daughter I would be delighted with the role-modelling Rey provides.
Moving on from my love of Rey...The film (deliberately) lacked the reassuring presence of an older Jedi presence for almost its entirety. This made it feel a bit different to all of the other films. (And at the end of the film the audience are left with the expectation that the Jedi will return in episode 8. :-) )
I would have liked to have been given a little more explanation as to how Fin and Rey are so competent in their use of lightsabres without any known training. This would have been simple (e.g. perhaps Fin could have mentioned some relevant weapons training as a storm trooper). One furthe minor gripe is that the head baddie "Snoke" has the name (and to a lesser extent the look) of a Harry Potter villain. But he was menacing enough and I imagine will become a more interesting character in the next film.
Also perhaps the overall plot of The Force Awakens made it feel a bit like a cover version of A New Hope, but the new characters and finer plot details made it sufficiently different. Moreover, I suppose there are a limited number of ways that the struggle between good and evil and can be told.
Overall I found the film captivating and affecting. Relative to the other Star Wars films it easily surpassed my minimum hope of it being more enjoyable than the prequels. I would also rate it above Return of the Jedi. For me, it doesn't top my favourite The Empire Strikes Back, but may be on a par with Episode 4. Very hard to comapre 4 and 7, as they are 2 very differently constructed movies and I was 5 years old when I saw A New Hope for the first time! Perhaps such comparisons are silly anyway, but I can't resist them! :-) In any event I'm delighted with the The Force Awakens. Most of all, I'm relieved that the wait for it is over. I had become consumed by expectation, and it's wonderful to be liberated from that. :-)

Comments

  • edited December 2015
    Things that I enjoyed about the film keep retruning to my mind...:-)
    I loved the 2 scenes when Kylo received bad news. He didn't respond with an outwardly bottled-up calm response, as would have Vader, but rather trashed a control console with his lightsabre in a raging tantrum. Again, an example of how the characters in the film were shown to be more multi-faceted than one dimensional stereotypes.
    Further to my feminist enjoyment of Rey's character, I respected the fact that the female Strom Trooper Captain Phasma was dressed in completely androgynous armour (albeit silver). It would have been easy to give in to sexing her up a bit and to stick a busty chest plate on her. Better that this was resisted.
    When I left the cinema two kids (a brother and sister) were enthusiastically playing with lightsabres outside. That made me smile too.
  • I'm in agreement with much of what you've posted, Doc. Though, as you'd expect, my score is a touch lower.
    The richness of self-referral was at first endearing and engaging. Its pedigree served it well, and made sympathy with established characters easy, esp., as you say, some did have more breathing space.
    But at the midway point, I was getting distracted by 1) debating at what point self-referral because self-plagiarism and 2) enjoying recognising scenes shot in Puzzlewood (a fave summer haunt for me).
  • ....with quite a few of the shots, it would be difficult to tell, I think, whether they came from part VII or A New Hope. Understandably, there was clearly a desire to remain true to the spirit, tone and look of the original trio after the prequels. At times it felt perhaps the pendulum had swung back too far.
    However, in the second half I did re-engage , due in no small part by the millenium falcon gymnastics and crash landings, and the lightsabre duels. And by the end, I did feel sufficiently invested in the new characters and did feel there had been sufficient originality added to the plotline in order to day Id enjoyed it and not been disappointed.
    I, of course, fully endorse a female hero. I thought Daisy Ridley (sp?) absolutely looked the part. And pulled of the Star Wars tradition of awful delivery of dialogue admirably
  • And in case any one is in any doubt: I loved ALL the scenes with Chewie in. ALL of them.
    Final score.... 6.7 / 10.

    (btw, this is all based on 2D. I'm not a fan of 3D as a rule - with the exception of TT3D maybe.)
  • edited December 2015
    6.7 / 10 is very high from you though! :-D I think I'm going for 8.3 (or 83%). Which is exactly what I gave A New Hope. At this stage I really can't choose between them in terms of my fondness for each. When I see reviewers giving it 5/5 stars this seems too much to me, but 4/5 seems to little. So from a star POV I'd give it 4.5/5 (if this is allowed).

    "Awfully delivered dialogue". Absolutely. At times the Star Wars franchise has offered up some of the worst acting in cinema history. I watched "The Empire Strikes Back" with my son and brother yesterday morning (the morning after the night before), and one line by a minor Imperial Commander ("Good. Our first catch of the day") is delivered so awfully it must have been deliberate.
    The similarities between Epsiode 7 and 4 are definitely worth discussing further. I was surprised that there was so much mimicry of Episode 4. Even a cheeky Mos Eisley cantina scene type thing with various weird and unsavoury characters. As I say, at times (but only at times, important to stress that) it did feel like a cover version. But a good cover version. :-) Most importantly, I do feel that I want to defend the film against accusations of plagiarism, so it must have won me over. I'm not sure how objective I can be in my critique of the movie now, so I won't suggest where the line is between self-referencing and self-plagiarising, just that I was surprised rather than disappointed at those aspects of the film that did draw on a New Hope's narrative. I read one review this morning hypothesising that JJ Abrams and his team must have sat down and explicitly distilled out the formula that made Episode 4 work, in order to ensure that all of those component parts were present in this film. I can well believe this. At least, the similarities absolutely cannot have been consciously unnoticed by the production team, and so one would presume not somehow undiscussed by JJ.
    Re. the Puzzle Wood thing. I did learn of this only the day before seeing the movie. And yes, it was distracting to me too, and I would have liked to have not known it until after seeing the film (thank you BBC local news).
    Suzy, coming from you I'm wondering whether "absolutely looked the part" is possibly a criticism of Rey's casting. To what extent did you mean it to be?
    Chewie was great. I enjoyed the moments when he acts as critical friend of Han, refusing to deny reports of Han's previous mistakes! :D

    Some of my favourite lines of the film:
    When Kylo Ren tells Lor San Tekka (Max Von Sydow) how much he's aged since their last meeting, Lor repostes "Somthing far worse has happened to you."
    And I chuckled my head off when Rey, infuriated by Fin's attempts to be chivalrously-helpful / mysoginistically-repressive* (*delete as appropriate) as they escape an attack, shouts at him "I know how to run without you holding my hand!".

    I have booked in to see the film again on Monday afternoon. :-)
    Like Suzy, I gravtitate more towards the 2D experience, but I plan to see the film for a third time and in 3D between Christmas and the New Year. :-)
  • "At times the Star Wars franchise has offered up some of the worst acting in cinema history"
    In this episode, it has to be the 3rd Reich-esque speech to the First Order. Just dreadful.

    "Suzy, coming from you I'm wondering whether "absolutely looked the part" is possibly a criticism of Rey's casting. To what extent did you mean it to be?"

    Not at all.I didnt know Daisy Ridley previous to her casting for this. I had heard really good things about her performance from early reviews, about her charisma on screen. So was expecting a lot. Was intially put off by the delivery of her lines, and did find the precision of her "stray" loose hair to frame her face ridiculously artificial. But in terms of her costume and look and her movement acting, I liked it a lot. She was physically capable, flexible, agile, independent, feisty, reflective, not over sexualised. All good afaic. In terms of "mirroring" of characters/ themes / narrative from episode 4 (maybe a tactful way of putting it?) I think she made a suitable parallel for Luke's early persona. More wordly and capable, but naive and inexperienced too. The same moral fortitude.

    Which makes me want to say something about Leia. I really like the intentions with her character: the mature adult dynamic between herself and Han; her role as an estranged mother; her calm competence as a general. Though I'd liked to have seen her more as a strategist than a co-ordinator. But maybe that will come in the future episodes. I liked the 2 females dynamic when we got to see it. But I am hoping that Carrie Fisher will become more physically comfortable in her role in later films.

    I have to say, in terms of pace, I do think that the film did well, especially as part of a bigger narrative arc. There was no fanny-arsing about with plot, character or action: it all got stuck straight in. I liked that. I didnt feel like stuff was being drawn out or provaricated over to keep in reserve for later episodes.
    My hope had been that I would walk out of the cinema and want to go straight back the next day. I didnt feel that last night. Yes, I'd want to see it again as soon as it came out on vid, I thought (as I negotiated my way through the sea of drunken people falling out of clubs and pubs). But that was all. However, when a friend just told me she hadnt seen it yet, and wanted to over the holidays, Idid find myself volunteering to go with her - though we will be sticking to 2D :-)

    Favourite line in the film? Undoubtably the equivalent of the school nurse dabbing germolene and a sticking plaster on a whingeing Chewie and reassuring him, "Yes, that sounds like you were really very brave". Worth going back just to giggle at that again 
    :-*
  • Oh, just remembered, I did like Kylo Ren's new Crusades style light-sabre. ANd did enjoy the slashing up of the control room muchly. But do have a small gripe on this: the "flaming" sabre's sound effects often sounded more like trickling water than crackling fire, which was most inconsiderate for the final duel in a 2 hr 15 min film  :-S

    Ok, nuff said from the 6toes household now I think.
  • Ha. I hadn't twigged. :-)
    Best thing about Kylo is his birth name...
    Ben Solo... :-)
  • (Doc, I did reply to your Rey question. Hope you found it.)
  • DF, you are definitely a fully fledged Star Wars fan B-)

    On reading your thoughts and impressions I'm left refreshed and in wonder at the level of pleasure/satisfaction that you derived from watching the latest outing. (I've not seen it yet)

    I don't think I've ever been that immersed with any film and bow to your eager enjoyment. Maybe I'm just too cynical or ? to acheive the same level of celluloid stimulation. I'm almost jealous!.....I do have a son called Luke though! (not inspired by the septology).
  • edited December 2015
    Suzy6toes said:
    (Doc, I did reply to your Rey question. Hope you found it.)
    Yes. Thanks. I've only just found the time to acknowledge it adequately. Thanks for clarifying my understanding of what you were saying. So apart from a contrived stray hair, Rey's character gets a thumbs-up. :-)
    I also love the fact that "The Struggle" is unlrelenting for you. Not satisfied with the post-Force-Awakens facts that best hero in any Star Wars film is now a woman, or that most of the male characters are emotionally illiterate toddlers, you demand that Leia's General role is unsufficient because she is merely a "co-ordinator" rather than a "strategist". Good to see that you remain ruthless in your mission to sweep out the last sticky cobwebs of mysoginist hegemony from the remotest corners of our society. :D Put your arse back in your knickers. It's Christmas. <:-P ;-)

    I had forgotten that Chewie moment. Very funny. Though I did find it a bit patronising and sexist towards Chewie.
    X(
  • cj66 said:
    DF, you are definitely a fully fledged Star Wars fan B-)

    On reading your thoughts and impressions I'm left refreshed and in wonder at the level of pleasure/satisfaction that you derived from watching the latest outing. (I've not seen it yet)

    I don't think I've ever been that immersed with any film and bow to your eager enjoyment. Maybe I'm just too cynical or ? to acheive the same level of celluloid stimulation. I'm almost jealous!.....I do have a son called Luke though! (not inspired by the septology).
    A real relief that you pick up on my enthusiasm and affection for the films rather than just my musings. My writings here are a gush, not meaningful reviews.
    A real relief also that you suggest that my enthusiasm and affection for a movie franchise have value and are not pathetic or embarrassing.
    "Pleasure" and "satisfaction" are bang on as descriptors of how I feel about The Force Awakens.
    I'm intrigued to read your thoughts about what words might be substituted for your "?"
  • edited December 2015
    Enjoyed the 2nd viewing. Possibly more, as i was without weight of expectation. Also i was aware of watching 2 films, sometimes separate, occasionally merging; sometimes sharing scenes, sonetimes alternating: one was an about 35 minute remake of episode 4 that was telling me "yes, we fell in love with this too", the other was a 90 minute new film launching the new generation and secretly whispering "and while you'e enjoying being reassured by something familiar, we're going to get on with kicking off these new characters and ideas...".
  • Also, the 2nd viewing confirmed that the only part of the film i didn't like was the scene when the big blobby cgi monsters were gobbling about the place shortly after Han and Chewie turned up. To my mind that bit stood out like a sore thumb.
  • You're right , Ben: I am not festive.
    And so will withdraw from this thread before my sarcasm gets loose.

  • Suzy6toes said:
    You're right , Ben: I am not festive. And so will withdraw from this thread before my sarcasm gets loose.
    I'm a little disappointed. I was anticipating your return barrage... ;-)
    Also a bit worried, and hoping that my jibing was not too badly timed.
    Take care.
    May the force be with you.
  • Slightly more festive today as my 10 year old nephew asked if I'd go with him to see Star Wars. Both seen it before, but not together.
    Interesting how I was able to surrender to the experience, rather than analyse this time.
    Also a different experience being with kids, who jump, and hide their eyes, and laugh so overtly.
    We both agreed that the final Han scene was more emotive 2nd time round. And both cried.
    My nephew's comment in the last scene: "you've got to admit, its a real cliffhanger"
  • Good Aunting. :-)
    I think i agree with you about the Han scene. Because i'm not too clever with narratice anticipation, first time round i didn't get kylo's "i have to do something difficult..." line.
    Will Ben Solo be saved by his old ma Leia in some future installment?
  • Saw the film for a third time last week. This time in 3D.
    Personally, I just can't get on with that format. Others clearly do. May be I'm just not focussing on the screen properly or something.

    Initially I find the 3D effect distracting rather than immersive.
    Then I start to perceive the on-sceen 3D effect as being like a Victorian paper theatre like this one:
    image
    So my brain tells me that the image is not of 3D solid objects at gradiated distances from me, but a series of 2D flat objects placed at various set stages.

    Finally my mind seems to cancel out the effect altogether. There's also some blurring and some gloominess.

    How do other people find the 3D experience?

    I haven't tried iMax. I suspect that is something my brain would engage better with.
  • Docfoster said:

    Finally my mind seems to cancel out the effect altogether. There's also some blurring and some gloominess.

    How do other people find the 3D experience?


    Totally agree, just doesn't work for me either.
  • I saw Star Wars in 3D at the IMAX in Leicester Square Ben and concur with your assessment of it. The only difference is the IMAX is a more expensive Victorian paper theatre. I think that 3D works well with static or slow moving moments, where there is limited camera panning. For example there's a scene that opens with one of the dark side's craft moving to occupy the whole screen - this was reach out and touch it realistic. They also showed a computer-generated 3D countdown before the film started which was astonishing in its clarity and movement towards the audience. I've never seen so many people duck out the way as the first number came towards us.

    However, any scene with fast panning, or people/objects that were fractionally on a different focal plane failed to impress. How can one person be in soft focus while the other, standing next to them is in soft focus? Surely it's the same camera? I agree about odd lighting variances as well that look plain wrong.

    My hope is that 3D bites the dust alongside curved TV screens.

    I couldn't fault the sound system they use at the IMAX. It was way too loud and the bass slam made me feel sick at times.....perfect! Dolby Atmos made effects steering far more convincing compared to normal 7.1 soundtracks. It really fills in the gap when effects move from the front to rear soundstage or vice versa.

    When I get some free time I'll add my thoughts on the film, although I largely concur with your views Ben. A solid 8 out of 10 for me.
  • Thanks for write ups, Ben and James. Helps relieve me of any sense that I might have missed out 
    :-D 

  • I've been a Star Wars fan since 77'  and episode i thought was not good infact i thought waste of money at cinema feel really let down after all the hype i was so looking forward to seeing it as well. As a score i would give it a 3 out of 10 and there was lot of f*%k up's in the film with dialogue and the bit with the sun and the tie fighters reminded me of Apocalypse Now. And did anyone spot the HGV in the back ground? feel very disappointed and let down. Fell they could have made it a lot better and darker.
  • edited January 2016
    You didn't like it at all.
    I felt very differently, though you may be right about the sun-set scene...
    B-)

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/star-wars-force-awakens-apocalypse-now-influence-2015-12
  • It was ok such a shame as I've been a fan since day one. The dialogue was when they was talking and they said we have to find Luke hamill, think it should have been Luke Skywalker lol ,thought they had people to spot bits like that. But i all ways notice stuff like that in film's.Hope the next one is better


  • farout said:
    It was ok such a shame as I've been a fan since day one. The dialogue was when they was talking and they said we have to find Luke hamill, think it should have been Luke Skywalker lol ,thought they had people to spot bits like that. But i all ways notice stuff like that in film's.Hope the next one is better

    Eh? Are you sure? I don't remember that.
    Who do you remember saying it.
  • Ah, continuity errors and blundered lines. Sounds like trad Star Wars to me :-D

    If you can bring yourself to give it another go, Farout, I did find I was less distracted and analytical, and hence enjoyed it more the second time round. Maybe you already have though.
  • JJ Abrams laments the latest Chewbacca snub:

    https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/post/140738171806/jj-abrams-chewbacca-snub-was-biggest-mistake-of

    And, I hadn't realised that the first had been corrected in 1997!...

    image
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