Suggestions welcome (keep it clean).

PACPAC
edited January 2012 in Amplifiers
Later this year, perhaps when funds permit, I'd like to try a different amplifier to use with my Horning Agathon Ultimates.  Just for the record, I have no good reason or justification for swapping the amp in the same way that I had no good reason to swap my Aprilia RSV motorbike for a Colin Edwards replica RSV (ie they both do the same job, but I always fancied a Colin Edwards Rep and one came up!) , and so it is with the amp.  I'd just like to try something different especially after auditioning what a good 520B integrated could do with the Agi's...:x

For those unfamiliar with the Agi's, they're a behemoth of a loudspeaker compared with many modern boxes, each one being around 4 feet tall and weighing around 10 stone.  They have a commendably flat impedance curve and just under 100dB sensitivity so are quite amp friendly.  I know what I'd like in an amp but can't afford it so won't go there.  I currently use a Lumley Reference ST40 with quite a pedigree matched with a Lumley PP40 pre (more a passive control unit).  The amp was designed and built by Ben Carter for John Jefferies (retired) who owns the Lumley brand, and is rather unique in a number of respects.  It was designed to meet strict aesthetic as well as sonic targets, having the power supply tranny up front rather than at the rear with the output trannies and uses Mu metal in the transformer for shielding of delicate pre-amp sections.  Output is 40 watts RMS via a quad of 6L6GCC STR valves and distortion is commendably low for an amp of this type.  Sound is quite muscular (you get the feeling it could drive some very awkward loads).  Ben kindly re-built the amp from the ground up for me two years ago, as I had had the amp previously serviced and the valves hadn't been properly biased frying the circuit (I wouldn't recommend the chap who previously did the service).  He tells me it was one of only 10 built, primarily for the Far East market, and as far as I'm aware, only two exist in the UK in the superior Mk1 guise. Mine and one Ben himself has.  I don't know value for what's essentially a "new" amp since rebuild, but would hope to fetch enough to try something else.  The reason for the change is I have the itch, and once it starts, it's hard to settle it!  I listened to the speakers when driven by the Horning Sati and that was a marriage made in heaven...pure musical bliss...God's own system to my ears.  

Just wondered amongst you erudite chaps what you might recommend?  I'm not married to valves per se, but they do rock my boat compared with a majority of SS designs I've auditioned (I prefer the Lumley over amps like the MF A5 and other similar muscular integrated SS amps.  It has a magical mid range, goes deep and when eventually it does run out of puff, it wont make your ears bleed).  I like the idea of a 520B integrated but my wallet and my wife don't. I should never have auditioned the Horning Sati's!

Comments

  • uglymusicuglymusic
    I've always been impressed by 1970s Binatone integrateds.

    Oh, sorry, you said keep it clean
    :-\"
  • PACPAC
    How very dare you sir!  Now go and wash your mouth out with soap and a brillo pad!
  • uglymusicuglymusic
    edited January 2012

    O:-)
  • AlanAlan
    I have little to offer I am afraid, in terms of experience - suffuce to say I also have heard the MF amp you mention (and a couple of others) and feel they are one trick ponies. Not for me at all, so your current setup sounds like it should tick all the boxes.

    Incidently, I am only down the road from John's old shop in Cross in Hand (the business was moved to Lewis by its new owners), I think he still lives in Heathfield. I certainly did not know he owned Lumley, though I know he sold them. I wish I knew him (and that I was part of his target demographic, for that matter) and his shop - my dad remembers him as the maker of Nightingale speakers in Eastbourne.

    My almost non-existent experience only really allows me to say I like wot I got, which is statement NVA gear. Many people who know better say it has all the best attributes of valves, none of the nasties of SS, and a whole raft of other nice, rather unique qualities. If I were you, I moght also drop Colin a PM as he just finished a prototype class A amp which is - according to him (and he has some pedigree) - quite special.

    I am sure that something interesting can be found on AudioChews, which is something in itself given the size of the membership here - 'Chewers seem to be a discerning bunch.
  • PACPAC
    Hi Alan

    some very thoughtful and interesting observations there.  I agree with you.  MF stuff IMHO tends to be one trick pony kit in my book as that seems to be a big part of the design ethos.  The Lumley I have is so far removed from that type of ethos that it shines by comparison.  It was designed and built by an expert and enthusiast and it really shows.  I've spoken to John several times and he was very helpful with supplying parts for my old Lumley Lampros 300 AB loudspeakers (superb speakers) but never got round to visiting the shop.  The NVA gear integues me as it's not the first time that I've heard very similar observations to yours about it.  It might be worth following up as I have a supplier of NVA gear close by.  I'm in contact with Colin on another issue so may follow that lead up too.  I'm in two minds to part with the Lumleys as I may live to regret it.  They really are something rather special and very unlike the more mainstream ST70 which is altogether a different beast.  Perhaps I should never have listened to the 520 Sati and I wouldn't have the itch!
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    I have a soft spot for MF amps. They lured me into higher end hifi 15 years or so ago (first the X-A2 and then the A3.2). I sold both to friends and I still get to hear them from time to time, and I still like them. I do know what you're saying about 1 trick ponies though.
    But I'm afraid since I got into NVA I haven't looked anywhere else for amplification. I can't really recommend anything beyond NVA. I'm a bit of a 1 trick pony myself I suppose...
    PAC: "A supplier of NVA"? Do such things exist

  • Brain_DeadBrain_Dead
    I like the Croft Amps, and the Trilogy Valve Amps, I hate the Luke Manley stuff it hard and a total music wrecking machine. I have also enjoyed the Nelson Pass designs, but Douglas Self again is to hard and far to complex. It seems to me the old saying K.I.S.S. always works better so this elimination for me all the classes of digital music OK it simple on- off but  I prefer OFF OFF and stay OFF. And why should the instruction to play music be more complex than the Concord flight manual on how to use the toilet.( in the old manual it says do not operate toilet whilst in inverted flight, yer cool)
    (For those out that think I am be fruity again mmm K.I.S.S. is Keep It Simple Stupid:x)
    So in the early 197X,s I designed a single ended A Class then using the very first IR FET,s and they died a lots, the first 12W went to Martin Columns and later on to the Flat Earther Chris, and our Malcolm Stewart.
    I have always loved that rich clear sound that they produce. ( and they are ON ON and very ON hot little beasts)

  • AlanAlan
    I never heard the Manley amps, though I wanted to (not so bothered now, after your comment above) simply because they made one of the coolest looking amps ever - the Stingray. IIRC, Joe P on Pink Fish Media uses one.

    As regards KISS, I quite agree - apart from your heretical blasphemy against digital...

    I forgot about Nelson Pass, his low powered stuff like first watt should be a match made in heaven with those Horning Agathons, though my interest would also extend to the clean, high powered amps for my monitor speakers.

    Have we mentioned Tim De Paravanici and EAR yet?
  • PACPAC
    edited January 2012
    Ah..the Stingray!  Once seen never forgotten but I've never heard one .  I quite liked the Rega pre/power (Cursa/Maia) I once owned which I believe used a dual line FET stage.  I visited a friend today who has recently purchased a Krell pre and married it to a Parasound 250w/ch power amp driving a set of MBL's....that was impressive and very neutral but out of my price league. I like class A amps and a good lowish powered class A would be worth considering.  My own amp works in class A/B push-pull configuration but is none the worse for it (class A for the first few watts which generally is all it takes to get a fair amount of volume from the Agathons).  The amps I desire above all others are the Shindo Labs 300B mono's partnered with their Monbrison pre but they're so rare and far above budget I can forget that!  I'll just have to see what I can get for mine and then see what';s available for a similar budget before deciding whether or not I'd like to swap them.
  • AlanAlan
    Ah, that sounds like Jerry's rig. He used to post here sometimes, but there just isn't the pool of interesting second hand kit available through AudioChews to keep him occupied I guess.. I have embarked down quite a few roads after a 'jerry' recommendation! I should imagine those MBLs of his are something quite special.

    Are these the ones?

    image


  • PACPAC
    edited January 2012
    That's the ones Alan.  Trouble is you need very deep pockets for a good pair of those.  It was at Jerry's place I listened to the MBL's.  I spent the morning there as Jerry has lusted after my Consonance Droplet since I bought it, so I brought it over to Jerry's and we had a very enjoyable session listening to all sorts of music. Those MBL's are rally rather special.  I wasn't sure how the Droplet would compare to Jerry's recently acquired MF A5, but it soon became obvious that the A5 didn't share the fluidity of musical presentation or the sound stage and was a little more strident and muddled with complex choral passages.  I think that may have tipped the balance for Jerry who I think will shortly have a shiny new Droplet CDP 3.1 in his system!  The A5 isn't bad per se, in fact its a cut above many I've auditioned and a good bit more neutral than my previous X-Ray V8 (way too strident) but the Droplet is still something of a rarity and much respected for what it does for music from a silver disc;  it's possibly one of the best CDP's I've personally listened to (hence why I eventually bought one).
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