Audio Chews: the hi-fi and music community

Alan

'Lo pooter doodz,

The surprise (well, to me anyway) release of the Hi-Face two USB > S/PDIF converter has quietly occurred. Well, it may not have been quiet, but I haven't been around so much lately.

Why is this interesting? On the face of it, there are no notable new main features - still it is capable of handling 24/192 and is asynchronous. However, it's main area of interest (to me anyway) is the Hi-Face 2 is now fully USB 2.0 compliant - so apart from a generic driver (for windows only) no more MAC drivers to get 192kHz. This is because it uses the XMOS USB chip.

(I'm getting there...)

This means in theory, that it is integer mode compatible, which if true would make it the first M2Tech device to be so. I have read on teh internetz that it is already being used by someone in integer mode, and that it sounds considerably better that the Hi-Face mk1.

I have been reading for ages of how Integer mode is a wonderful thing, that the effect of simply removing one simple stage of conversion makes a real difference. Well I have no idea if this is so, but I have hoped to find out. Adding an additional device like a Hi-Face 2 to the replay chain might negate much of the benefit, the only way to know will be to try it I guess.

The real hope for me, as an M2Tech Young DAC user, is that there might be an upgrade/update available for the Young, making it integer compatible.

uglymusic

And that's where your staying with Snow Leopard will look like a good thing. Lion doesn't support integer mode - at least, I don't think the much-anticipated upgrade has ever appeared.

Brumjam

Correct, but the next release of Audirvana will contain the equivalent of integer mode, that Damian is hopeful will sound better than integer on Snow Leopard. Very interesting.

I'm using one of J Kenny's Hiface Mk3 devices at the moment and it sounds very nice.

Brumjam

PS ur street talk is wikked innit Al.....proper down with da kidz B-)

Alan

Trudat! It is simply the way one rolls, is it not?

Damien is calling the new feature 'Direct mode', which he claims will be superior to 'Integer mode' and fully compatible with SL, Lion & Mountain Lion. I asked about DAC compatibility though, and it still seems to be only for the previously known 'Integer compatible' DACs.

Brumjam

Oh right I didn't know that. That rules out the JK device which uses an old skool B-) Hiface.

uglymusic

Brumjam said:
Correct, but the next release of Audirvana will contain the equivalent of integer mode, that Damian is hopeful will sound better than integer on Snow Leopard. Very interesting.

I'm using one of J Kenny's Hiface Mk3 devices at the moment and it sounds very nice.

Damian is my hero! Swoon :-)

uglymusic

Alan said:
Trudat! It is simply the way one rolls, is it not?

Damien is calling the new feature 'Direct mode', which he claims will be superior to 'Integer mode' and fully compatible with SL, Lion & Mountain Lion. I asked about DAC compatibility though, and it still seems to be only for the previously known 'Integer compatible' DACs.

So us Lion users will be awaiting M2Tech's new driver.

Alan

I'm not sure any new M2Tech driver will be forthcoming or is needed. Damien (Plissen, Mr Audirvana) is developing the new 'Direct' feature for Audirvana + imminently, but it will only work for Integer compatible devices. This is in spite of the USB sockets in MACs under Lion & Mountain Lion remaining non-integer compatible - he has found a way around the issue apparently.

To make the Young so would require a hardware upgrade to the new XMOS chip and related firmware.

uglymusic

Oh well, I'll see how it pans out. The Young is scheduled to stay here for some time yet, unless I suddenly make a shed load of money!

Alan

I notice Keith hasn't bitten yet - perhaps he hasn't asked Marco at M2Tech what the future holds. I may yet let idle curiosity become less idle..

uglymusic

It's always nice to hear what the future holds, Gypsy Rose Alan :-B

Alan

Ah, shut it, sceptic peg!

realmassy

I'm using the new Hiface 2 with the Young/Palmer and the BNC input: in my system I prefer it to the direct USB.

The two inputs sound quite different, the Hiface + BNC is more laid back, without loosing any detail or resolution.

The straight USB input (I've tested again yesterday) is more live and in your face. Not bad at all, but once I tried the Hiface 2 I knew it was a keeper.

With the Hiface 2 I prefer Audirvana Plus to PureMusic, with upsampling to 88 for redbook files. I also customised the Izotope parameters, but I'm not sure about the differences.

Anyway, the Young sounds great :-)

I'm wondering if M2Tech could update the Young with the new USB input: I sent an email but so far I got no reply.

uglymusic

That's very interesting @realmassy. Although, I must say from my POV, more laid-back is not what I'm aiming for.

What's the rest of your system?

realmassy

Well, laid back is not the right way to describe ANY M2Tech product :-)

My main rig is headphones based:

Mac Mini + Audirvana --> Hiface 2 --> Young/Palmer --> Stax 600ltd --> Stax 507

Those Stax are extremely transparent.

The Young still retains its energetic sound signature, with better control and perceived "ambience" (is that a word? I'm not a native english speaker). Your listening position is a few rows back.

In my system swapping between direct USB and BNC through Hiface has been like replacing the standard PSU with the Palmer. Bear in mind the Young is a completely different DAC using the SPDIF input: I remember reading the USB input bypasses some internal "stuff", with customised filter. This should not happen using the SPDIF input (BNC, RCA, XLR or optical). Someone with better technical knowledge may chime in and explain :-)

uglymusic

Ambience is the correct word.

I don't even have an amp with a headphone socket! So I don't know how to figure out what your findings mean for my system.

Sounds like it could be something else to investigate after the Lightspeed, OBs and interconnects. It may be around Christmas then, which was about the time I thought I may look for a new DAC :-)

Monty

realmassy said:
Well, laid back is not the right way to describe ANY M2Tech product :-)

My main rig is headphones based:
Mac Mini + Audirvana --> Hiface 2 --> Young/Palmer --> Stax 600ltd --> Stax 507
Those Stax are extremely transparent.

The Young still retains its energetic sound signature, with better control and perceived "ambience" (is that a word? I'm not a native english speaker). Your listening position is a few rows back.

In my system swapping between direct USB and BNC through Hiface has been like replacing the standard PSU with the Palmer. Bear in mind the Young is a completely different DAC using the SPDIF input: I remember reading the USB input bypasses some internal "stuff", with customised filter. This should not happen using the SPDIF input (BNC, RCA, XLR or optical). Someone with better technical knowledge may chime in and explain :-)

I'd be interested to hear Keith's view on this .....

coops

Monty Hi, I haven't tried the HiFace2 with the Young yet, but I will, generally I would prefer not to add another level of conversion if possible.
Keith.

Alan

That will be interesting; there was a chap on here who preferred his Young with a MF VLink interface to direct USB, and was quite insistent about it. I always meant to try a second hand VLink but always missed the cheap ones. I had always wondered if the perceived improvement was down to the XMOS USB chip (now in the HiFace 2 I think), which is integer mode compatible.

Generally, I'm with Keith on this one - I can't imagine it being an improvement, but it would be interesting to try; there might be something in it.

uglymusic

Yep. I guess as the arch-minimalist who fries drive units, I'd have to take that POV, too. But you never know until you try.

realmassy

To add more, I used to own a Halide Bridge, and I tried with the Young: the Young was so much better.

With the Halide the sound was too smooth and "unfocused", I sold it after a week.

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