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Alan

Hello, a power cable sceptic here. What about you?

A week or two ago I was at Jedi master OB-Jim kinobi's place, and amongst other things we discussed power cables. After patiently listening to me, Jim asked if I had time for a quick experiement. He unplugged the 'boutique' power cable from the Croft pre amp and put in a standard black moulded IEC cable, without adjusting anything in the system.

To say I was surprised at the change I heard is fair, and a bit of an understatement TBH. When his normal cable was re-instated the effect was reversed. What the change was and what was preferable isn't relevant but the fact there was a noticable change is.

Is anyone else an advocate (or otherwise) of 'decent' mains cables? What makes a good one, in your view?

I am used to amps with captive mains leads, have been for nearly five years now, but I am going to have some new amps in a few months. These will now have IEC sockets.

uglymusic

I'd go for IEC-free eventually.

Alan

Eventually? Do you mean hardwiring your eventual top choice once satisfied?

I understand the argument that hardwiring is better than having the best plug, though whether or not that is true I don't know.

uglymusic

Precisely!

Alan

So what's in a good mains cable? Well, copper presumably....

Is it all about RFI rejection, or shielding? Core size? Material purity? Can the cable raise mains impedence unnessesarily? Plug/socket quality? Bling?

uglymusic

That, I don't know. TBH, I've not really tried much. The TDSs have captive leads, the Young has its own PSU, which I'm not sure if it has a captive one or not, and there's not much option on the Mac.

Life is soooo simple at Ugly Towers :-)

Alan

I know, very simple... :P

I had a NOS CD player for a bit, sounded nice & timed well but no detail to speak of. Part of my HiFi growing up, so to speak, but that was the last component I had with IEC mains cable. Of course, there wasn't much to hear with that...

Docfoster

I was very surprised by the differences I heard between various IEC cables at the Hallowe'en bake-off a few years ago. I was definitely a sceptic prior to that.
Also, I did once hard wire an cable into a DVD player that I was using as a CD transport at felt that I heard improvements thereafter.
Most of my kit is NVA so its hardwired already.
The mains block that I use is one that I made for the bake-off. It's a metre of some moderately fancy 15A Belden cable feeding an unfused silver plated 6 way mains block. I remember it sounding fine at the bakeoff, but I've never compared it to anything else at home.
Also, as my hifi is right next to the consumer unit in the corner of the lounge, a couple of years ago I stuck in a dedicated MCB and 30cm of 20A domestic mains cable feeding a double socket directly behind my left speaker. After finding an unswitched double socket in my shed, I experimented between switched and unswitched socket and felt the unswitched sounded better.
It always surprises me when I hear a difference between mains cables.

Brain_Dead

Just to add TQ do make power cords Blue and Black.

Blue is for digital equipment with Switch Mode Power Supplies and CD, DAC Class D etc.

And the chunky Black is designed for the nice analogue devices with quieter linear type PSU,s

They are all tested to 3500VAC and the Black is fitted with Furukawa connectors.

The Blue is fitted with a Gold Plated MK 13Amp.

Look out for the reviews.

uglymusic

You've got the power!
:D

Brain_Dead

No Kathy has he he ^:)^

Brain_Dead

How are the G.s?

uglymusic

I won't know until this time next week, when we're back at Ugly Towers. Really looking to hearing them.

uglymusic

Brain_Dead said:
No Kathy has he he ^:)^

Of course. Sorry
[-O<

Brain_Dead

Phew glad she cant read this

PAC

Some can make a difference but for the opposite of what most people think! I've heard bigger differences at low levels than when the amp is pounding out the watts. Part of this is explained when looking at the impedance of all he connections and switches together with some capacitance effects. I make and sell powerchords using Furutech's best IEC's and Plugs along with their Alpha 3 cable. The connector quality (as Colin I'm sure will agree) means everything here. Get a well engineered ultra low impedance plug and IEC wich has better contact surfaces than a run of the mills set, and you'd be amazed in some systems how much more detail seems to come through at lower levels. I've found the results do vary depending on the quality of the power supplies in the amps and source components, and if you have top quality power supplies then perhaps you'll not notice as much difference. Also a regulated AC supply is a good idea. Money spent on this plus keeping whatever plugs you have nice and clean can be money well spent. All IMHO of course and others may find differently.

Brain_Dead

PAC said:
Some can make a difference but for the opposite of what most people think! I've heard bigger differences at low levels than when the amp is pounding out the watts. Part of this is explained when looking at the impedance of all he connections and switches together with some capacitance effects. I make and sell powerchords using Furutech's best IEC's and Plugs along with their Alpha 3 cable. The connector quality (as Colin I'm sure will agree) means everything here. Get a well engineered ultra low impedance plug and IEC wich has better contact surfaces than a run of the mills set, and you'd be amazed in some systems how much more detail seems to come through at lower levels. I've found the results do vary depending on the quality of the power supplies in the amps and source components, and if you have top quality power supplies then perhaps you'll not notice as much difference. Also a regulated AC supply is a good idea. Money spent on this plus keeping whatever plugs you have nice and clean can be money well spent. All IMHO of course and others may find differently.

On principle I never agree [-X But this time I will.

PAC

;)

Jim

No one has mentioned what I've always thought to be the single most important aspect of a power cable's design.

It has to long enough to reach the socket.

... my coat is already half on
=))

Docfoster

No jim. Those arcing sparks spanning the last few milimetres are something I've always valued! :-D

Docfoster

Brain_Dead said:

PAC said:
Some can make a difference but for the opposite of what most people think! I've heard bigger differences at low levels than when the amp is pounding out the watts. Part of this is explained when looking at the impedance of all he connections and switches together with some capacitance effects. I make and sell powerchords using Furutech's best IEC's and Plugs along with their Alpha 3 cable. The connector quality (as Colin I'm sure will agree) means everything here. Get a well engineered ultra low impedance plug and IEC wich has better contact surfaces than a run of the mills set, and you'd be amazed in some systems how much more detail seems to come through at lower levels. I've found the results do vary depending on the quality of the power supplies in the amps and source components, and if you have top quality power supplies then perhaps you'll not notice as much difference. Also a regulated AC supply is a good idea. Money spent on this plus keeping whatever plugs you have nice and clean can be money well spent. All IMHO of course and others may find differently.

On principle I never agree [-X But this time I will.

Green.
(do we have a 'green' facility on vanilla mr. R...?)

uglymusic

Possibly not...

Brain_Dead

He he what? Green

Docfoster

Sort of a 'well done' point / gold star that can be awarded by members to other members for pleasing posts, on some (lesser) forum platforms. Tho' I haven't seen any audio forums with that facility.
Gwlad rugby chat (welsh rugby forum) is from where I know it.

uglymusic

I think there's a plug-in for Vanilla that allows you to kind-of 'Like' comments in a Facebook-like way.

I'll have a look, if you like.

Docfoster

Thanks dave.
It's just a thought.

Brain_Dead

In Inca Tech days the Gold Plated Power Plug we did, showed major improvements on parts of the system such as TT and CD. Indicating that low power requirement thus small poorly controlled PSU,s had better clearer results than big amps.

Most CD then had crap SMPSU normally Fly-back types which did take peak currents in the order of 8-20 times the running current. Where as the TT had a small synchronous motor which also takes high peak currents.

Showing that impedance on contact with all the chemical interfaces could perform like bad diodes until breakdown voltage was exceeded resulting in a high impedance interface.

Maybe that accounts for the poor results we got with MK plugs in MK sockets the plug being a brass and the socket being annealed copper. And the gold plating of each solved the problem, were as the Delta plug was brass copper plated into a annealed copper socket and without plated sound much better than the MK mix.

We used Delta plugs and MK sockets at Inca Tech both Gold Plated, also tried it on the PCB and chassis of a 6 Claymore's well it looked good and marked badly but no sound improvement at all.

~O)

Alan

So a large amplifier PS has a different requirement from it's cable, plug & IEC socket than a TT, or a DAC/CD or class D amp with SMPS.

What sort of IEC inlets would fit into this chain? If you spend time considering the conductor (material & construction), and the plugs and what they are plated with, it would be daft not to consider the IEC socket as well. I have in mind an amp with a large rectified linear PS.

PAC

Just make sure they're all the same near as dammit Alan and that they fit well. Personally, I think gold plated copper is about the best material as the interface passes very small current when called for without the diode like effect Brian mentioned (although I think its just a high impedance contact in the eyes of tiny currents). Rhodium plating is harder wearing (and more expensive). You can get both in IEC sockets, plugs and IEC's. The cable shouldn't matter as much except that some cables do add capacitance to the supply side which is only significant at higher voltages. For cables, that's why I prefer to use NON shielded for amplifier power supplies since any decent power supply in an amp should have sufficient screening of unwanted artifacts and the screening IMHO is superfluous unless some of you naughtier types are using unscreened interconnects
[-X . For digital sources (DACs in particular) I prefer to use shielded as digital sources are notorious emitters of EMI, so the idea is to tap this and shunt it to ground (floating shield connected at mains plug).

Who knows...may even get another agreement from Brian on this ;)

:)>-

Alan

You mean dangerous Brian? Or Colin from TQ? :D

uglymusic

Brian is dead. Long live Brian
:D

PAC

Soz...meant Colin of course!

Brain_Dead

Sorry but he is Dead now killed by cable shock administered by wife.

PAC

...possibly less painful than being beaten to death by a Rhodium plated mains plug swung around on the end of a 2m mains lead...my wife has threatened as much if I bring any more hifi into the house =((

Brain_Dead

Ditto but gold furutech, now it would be much worse if I collect piano,s or steam trains I said.

I had to wash my mouth out with water and soap after that now I am thinking of buying a barn to hide it all in. Thank god she can,t get into my loft.

>:)

PAC

=))

My loft's full Colin..everything from Wharfedale Lintons to 1980's Denon amps plus a few DIY projects gathering dust...the living room has 2 amps, 2 sets of speaks, 2 turntables, 450 LPs, the same in CDs plus half a dozen "work in progress" acoustic panels for customers, a box of LP stabilisers awaiting final polishing, and dozens of interconnects awaiting boxing up stashed in the Ercol sideboards..Hmmm...perhaps the better half has a point?

Brain_Dead

My other better half's point seem to be bloody sharp. I am a battered hubby :((

uglymusic

Do you want chips with that? :-)

Brain_Dead

Only analogue chip, the digital ones give me bit burps and often byte back with a cache dump.

uglymusic

I don't think I want to know that :-&

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