LakeWest MDAC vs M2Tech Young DAC

edited June 2013 in Digital
The DAC off I alwanys wanted is definately on! My friend goes on holiday tomorrow, and has just dropped off his standard MDAC - for me to compare to my Young. I will be very interested in the comparison, as the long delayed MDAC was on my radar before the Young ever was.

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It may take a week or more for me to post some thoughts, so please be patient!

To his credit, the MDAC designer, John Westlake, is currently offering modifications to lift the MDACs performance - and despite being skeptical himself is now investigating why it is that the DAC is benefiting from resistors a customer sent him to try. He admits he cannot explain the difference, and doubts there should be one - but he hears it and is investigating. He even goes so far as to say the units he has already shipped should be returned to him to add the new resistors, the cost of which he will cover, as well as half the shipping. Hooray for open minded (and ear-ed) designers, I say!

Comments

  • Now, that sounds interesting.

    I await your findings...
  • Interesting Alan.  Always wanted to hear the MDAC.
  • Nice one Aleen
    I have had both DAC's and I currently have a modded power supply MDAC.
    I have a hunch which one you will prefer but I'll leave it to you to decide.
  • Usually if we can get both in the same room at the same time, we usually sell the Young, unless the user requires volume attenuation.
    Keith.
  • Interesting, Keith. My gut feeling is along similar lines to what you report, so I guess I'm not exactly unbiased! I would love the Young to wipe the floor with the MDAC, but the difference is almost certain to be subtle. Rather like me! :D

    I am not in any way dissatisfied with the Young, my interest is in consolidation. In playing with pre amps, I am being drawn to conclude I prefer a decent passive to a decent active. Putting attenuation into the DAC is the logical progression of that, one less component, and one less interconnect (with the two solder joints, and junction between plugs and sockets each side).

    So, if the MDAC can nearly match the Young, I will have to decide whether to swap, as the MDAC can be upgraded. In its final guise it costs as much as a Young (minus the Young PS), and I would fully expect it to equal or better the more attractive Italian, plus I could simplify my rig.
  • hi
    interesting to read about all these mods that JW performs, no mention is made of a better psu for it though, based on my mdac customers the linear psu I had designed takes the mdac up to a completely different level performance wise so with JW's mods and a linear who knows what is possible, wouldn't mind getting hold of a JW breathed on one.


  • We have had both dacs here, the ' modifcations ' are good for the designers income, I wonder if any user could tell a modified unit to the standard article in a blind test.
    Keith.
  • edited June 2013
    Well, TBH, I don't do blind testing; I didn't when I chose the Young and I won't when I compare these two. Lets let the DACs speak for themselves, otherwise someone may think there is 'right' conclusion and a 'wrong' one.

    Keith, Mods are good for a designers income, just as sales are for a dealer... your point being? These DACs are both unmodified, and will be compared as such. I prefer to give JW benefit of the doubt, as a sincere designer interested in both his product and his users, unless I see evidence to the contrary.

    (In fact, I shall have to dig out the Young's original wall-wart supply, and euro adapter to make it work, in the interests of fairness.)

    As for J Westlake's modifications being clearly audible, and/or aftermarket power supplies providing value for money (something JW has actually discussed on pfm), the only way for anyone to know is to try them. Any speculation made without direct experience is just, er, speculative.

    To quote that literary giant, D Rumsfeld:
    There are known knowns; there are things we know that we know.

    There are known unknowns; that is to say, there are things that we now know we don't know.

    But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don’t know.
  • Alan I approach modifications with a healthy scepticism, if. you have two units, have one modified and then compare the original to the modified unit 'blind' and you can hear an improvement then that is absolutely fine.
    Keith.
  • Looks like a seminal moment in the life of Mr. Brown's hifi approaches!
  • We have had both dacs here, the ' modifcations ' are good for the designers income, I wonder if any user could tell a modified unit to the standard article in a blind test.
    Keith.
    Does that go for Youngs with aftermarket PSUs, too?
  • If we are specifically discussing the Young, the Palmer might help if you have noisy electricity, and at least with external power supplies you can compare instantly to the supplied unit.
    My point was really that seldom do users have the oppurtunity to compare a modified unit to the standard spec.
    Keith.
  • When I had the Young, bought from the good Keith himself, I was always really impressed with it to say the least.
  • edited June 2013
    Well. FWIW, I think the upgraded PSU is a must with the Young.
  • Looking forward to your findings :) 

    I did this exact comparison in April last year when I had both DACs at home and ended up preferring the Young. To me the Young sounded more expressive, open and involving whilst losing nothing in refinement to the MDAC.

    Lefty
  • edited June 2013
    Cool! I look forward to finding out what 'expensive' sounds like! ;)

    I take your point though, about quality and involvement - things I think the Young excels at.
  • Alan who repairs the Mdac when it is no longer an Audio lab product, I presume they are returned to JW?
    Keith.
  • I'm on a phone so I can't find a citation (which is buried in ignore anyway), but I believe JW is going to offer a lifetime product warranty.
  • What were your findings here Alan?
  • edited July 2013
    You think he knows? 
  • I'm afraid I don't know, not really. I had to return the DAC to Justin as he returned from holiday, and I hadn't given it enough time. I was too busy playing with pre-amps.

    After a few brief listens, it seemed every bit as competent as I would expect a decent DAC to be, although I wasn't familiar enough with it to make a meaningful comparison.

    I plan to compare it sometime in the future, Justin lives just around the corner.
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