a run down of the main system for you which should help with any matching questions:
Analogue:
Front ends:
Garrard 401;
Michell Gyro SE;
EAR 834P Signature;
RFC MC1 SUT;
Digital:
Consonance Mini Droplet CDP...also acts as stand alone DAC or transport;
Amps:
Croft Micro (phono) 25 preamp;
EAR 869 integrated (can also be used as stand alone power amp). The EAR and croft can be used together to harness a shed load of inputs...made possile by switching from the EAR integrated mode to bypass mode which brings the Croft into play;
Speakers;
A pair of Reference Fidelios. Don't worry, despite their size and room dominance, they wont bite....much
Thing about not having output protection is that for years it could work just fine, and then just blow and take out the speakers. As it happens I had both my A60s blow one channel in the space of a month of each other. One of the A60s was driving a brand new pair of £2k speakers I bought as a present for my folks. The speakers were 2 days old and the A60 blew and went into short circuit sending 30V or so into the speaker. However, the speakers were saved and undamaged. Guess how....
...because the amp was plugged into an AG500 ac regenerator. When the amp went short circuit it drew so much current from the AG500 that the AG500 protection circuit was triggered and just shut down before any damage was done
Anyway, personally I'm actively looking at modifying all my NVA amps and designing protection into them.
Thing about not having output protection is that for years it could work just fine, and then just blow and take out the speakers. As it happens I had both my A60s blow one channel in the space of a month of each other. One of the A60s was driving a brand new pair of £2k speakers I bought as a present for my folks. The speakers were 2 days old and the A60 blew and went into short circuit sending 30V or so into the speaker. However, the speakers were saved and undamaged. Guess how....
...because the amp was plugged into an AG500 ac regenerator. When the amp went short circuit it drew so much current from the AG500 that the AG500 protection circuit was triggered and just shut down before any damage was done
Anyway, personally I'm actively looking at modifying all my NVA amps and designing protection into them.
Should that be the path of your choosing, I take it that you are aware of the "gypsy's curse" that will follow...?
Well, bake-off over and the dust has just settled on a much quieter and more empty RFC mansions!
It was a genuine pleasure meeting up with you all and it was a very enjoyable day. Thanks in particular to David, Jason and James who all drove such a long way to be here and to Ben for being such a good sport in putting a few of the weary travellers up for the night...I hope that the hot dogs were worth the drive!
Some great tunes played and some remarkable talent on show with Jason's fabulous little DAC and transport (you're a very talented chap Jason) and with Colin's understated little Green Goddess. Sorry you couldn't make it Col and I do hope you get well soon.
That little amp you "cobbled" together Col is a revelation. 12W of Class A SET loveliness! If you ever get round to doing a 25w version, I'd happily be first in line for one The "GG" suited to Reference Fidelios down to the ground.
Some great banter and insights shared so hope the day was worth-while for you all. James, if you ping me an email with those photos, I'll help sort out the crossovers for you (at least point you i the right direction)
I've just got home after having to duck out a little early. Thanks for today Paul, it was great to hear so many different bits of kit. What struck me about your speakers initially was the amount of low down welly and authority, but what I was left with was their ability to communicate. They seem to have great mid range size and presence, whilst being incredibly open and transparent; a speaker I could live with. Jason your EAR amps were quite incredible and Dave I would have liked to have done some more careful listening to your amp but home responsibities beckoned. Paul you mentioned hot dogs for lunch. I was expecting processed tripe mate to taste like the hotdogs we all know, what we found was a bloody meat feast of note, and Jason thanks for the beers which made a certain topic all the more laughable ! You will all have to come to sunny Maidstone next time.
Glad you liked them James (hot dogs and speakers!) and yes, the post lunch chat was made all the more enjoyable with a few beers! Forgot to mention Jason's EAR amps...incredible...loads of welly and control. EAR amplification at its best and it was great listening to Floyd's Wall album using the very amps they used in one of their studios with very similar speaker drivers.
Righto. For me these events are characterised first and foremost by the social experience that they present. The hifi/audio side of things is important too, but it is secondary. I had a great day yesterday. Met up with some old friends and made a new one too. With regard to the audio side of things we had an interesting time. Not least because so many of the components were essentially pro and semi-pro DIY projects. Paul's speakers, Jason's new music PC and Colin (Wonfor)'s 'Green Goddess' power amp. Even the MDAC that James brought apparently bears his forum name (Sovereign) after being specially modified for him.
James (Sovereign) is introduced by Paul (PAC) of RFC to his visually and acoustically impressive Fidelo speakers: refurbed Tannoy drivers, hadmade cabinets, besopke crossovers, huge sound.
Jason (Figlet) introduces his new music PC to Paul and James. The new PC is a similar approach to Jason's previous NVA TFS, but with a simplified and internal PSU, and without a DAC board (it can be played through the DAC in the motherboard or as we did, through an external USB DAC).
For sources we used both of Paul's turntables, but mainly his Michel Gyro SE. Also Paul's Consonance CD player and Jason's PC (first through James' 'Sovereign' MDAC and then the smaller HifimeDIY DAC). The preamp used was Paul's Croft Micro.
Jason PC > Sovereign MDAC > EAR 509 (in background) > RFC Fidelos.
We had a good selection of amps. Paul's EAR 860, Jason's EAR 509 monoblocks, Dave's 'Green Goddess' (courtesy of Colin Wonfor) and an NVA AP10P that I brought. In the end we didn't use the NVA. Paul was nervous about its lack of protection circuitry. This has never caused me a problem, but Paul has lavished hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds on his Fidelo speakers and was not prepared to risk them.
The 'Green Goddess' 10 Watts PC Class A.
All 3 amps sounded good. For me the high point was listening to Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' through Jason's EAR 509s. There was more punch and clarity than I've ever heard from a valve amp. My judgement may have been somewhat clouded by Paul informing us that Pink Floyd has mastered the album using that very model of EAR amp into Tannoy speakers back in the day, so the experience took on some degree of added authenticity. Very pleasing.
"The Wall"
Paul seemed quite taken by 'The Green Goddess' and suggested that he may be interested in one of Colin's similar, but higher powered creations. I went along with this. Following the 100W PC EARs the 'Green Goddess' wasn't quite as authorative or dynamic into the big Tannoys. A very smooth and natural performer nevertheless.
The audience (of Jason, James and Dave (Uglymusic)) reassure anxious WAGs that safe arrivals have been made...
I'd be happy to live with any of the amps I heard. None were outclassed by the others. I would have liked to have had a higher powered SS amp to compare to Jason's chunky valve monoblocks, but at the level of price and quality that all of these amps are, it often seems to me that the difference between components becomes a matter of personal and overall system preference.
In any event, no overall verdict was discussed or necessary. I had a really gratifying day all round. Lots of good listening, good music and good company. That so many of the components used had been created by friends (present and absent) seemed very apt. And, quite humbling that people I know can create things that make such wonderful sounds. Thanks very much to Paul for hosting and to everyone for the miles travelled.
Nice summary of the day Ben and I agree, there was no real gear criticism ...all the amps had their respective strengths...the EAR 869 seemed the most incisive and detailed, the 509s had most wallop and the GG was a lovely thing, less incisive than the 869 and with less wallop than either of the other two amps but had a lovely soundstage and slightly laid back presentation. That little DIY DAC of Jasons was a revelation, extraordinarily good and if I didn't already have "a next project" this would be it! The Wall was the highlight for me, no matter how often I hear that album, it never fails to impress.
What impressed most though was the effort made to travel the miles travelled by everyone to meet up yesterday. My sincere thanks to all for attending and to new friendships made.
I'm humbled that you enjoyed the Tannoys David, as I was apprehensive about the reaction knowing that big Tannoys haven't been your bag in the past.
That chillie flavoured Tommy Ketchup was pretty spicy! :-))
I think that both of the EAR amps had the typical EAR house sound...slightly lean of neutral, but without sounding bright. It seems to be a characteristic of many EAR amps I've listened to although the upside is fabulous resolution.
The Green Goddess was indeed a revelation.
After having a chat on the day with James, I'm almost tempted to have a go at an RFC Open Baffle design for my next project so will start looking for likely driver candidates. Anyone got some 18" woofers knocking about they dont want? :O
No need to be humbled, Paul - but thanks all the same (sincerely).
There's no such thing as right in hi-fi, so it shouldn't have mattered one jot if I'd have hated them.
The Green Goddess should finally be getting her caps implant sometime soon, so she should be able to give kick drums and low end stuff a better kicking. I'm glad you liked her, too.
Alan and I have just fallen head over heels for what Colin's SECAs do.
@jim, late of this parish is the man for OBs, although he's gone away from them recently, first to horns and then to Quad Electrostatics.
I take it you're not going to try the single-driver approach to OBs?
I'm sort of contemplating floor ported or IB designed stand alone active boxes for the bass, and OB mid and HF drivers on their own OB stands. It's all about finding the right drivers, and I'd want some very sensitive ones of 95 to 100dB sensitivity. Trouble with that plan is we don't have the room to accommodate such a design so it may have to be a more traditional OB approach. May experiment with some old valve radiogram speakers for the mids as they can be picked up for tuppence and run some ribbons for the treble. Its getting the right bass drivers that may prove tricky. It may be another year though before I get time to do anything with it as a project. I want to design and build some conventional stand mounters prior to that for RFC.
So a slightly belated BIG THANKS from me for a great day.
The star of the show without a doubt were Paul's speakers: Mmmm.... big fat shiny speakers.... Mmmm.... pink socks...
Beautiful finish and amazing attention to detail. So much thought and design has gone into these speakers. They sounded wonderful. Commanding, controlled and tuneful bass along with a sweet and detailed mid and treble. I wouldn't normally consider this kind of speaker as I have a bias for ribbon tweaters but I could easily live and die with these speakers. At this high level of hifi it's really all about personal preference and I thought Paul's speakers would suit someone that favoured a slightly more bass balanced system. The room was literally shaking in its boots when the full wrath of that bass was unleashed. The highlight though as others have said was the pink floyd - simply sublime.
Now for some large images of amps. First off my EAR 509s... I like these amps a lot because they suit my system at home and my tastes. Their power, detail and musicality compliments the low and abundant bass I get from my speakers, DAC and relatively small listening rooms.
Next up a Colin Wonfor special - the Green Goddess, worshiped by Dave on a daily basis. Very nice indeed. Maybe not as much clout as the 509s but a beautifully balanced and musical presentation. I would dearly love to hear Colin's 20w production version. I suspect something like that might become my favourite amp.
Finally the EAR 869. On the day this was my least favourite. Paired with the Mdac the sound was a little harsh. Very detailed though.
Paul makes it clear that Swedish red-neck music will NOT be tolerated in his house...
It's time to light the BBQ and Paul is blown away by the latest technology in fire-lighters. Apparently you just plug this baby in and it starts a fire in no time Originally invented by John Linsley Hood it's since been vastly improved to start a fire every time...
The food was delicious actually - Paul you are a man of many talents. In the end though I agree with Ben, the greatest pleasure was in meeting up, making new friends and seeing old friends. James, it was great to meet up and put a face to a long-time Avatar.
Thanks to all for making it a great day, in particular to Paul for being such a gracious and acomplished host and for Ben for opening up the Bishop B&B for me and Dave.
Right, that ~£50 DAC I had with me was this Hifimediy dac: In theory this DAC should sound good: - Sabre DAC chip (although a cheaper and lesser implementation to the Sabre chip in the Calyx DAC) - No output stage as such, as the DAC chip can drive the amp directly - Better than average oscillator for better timing and PRATishness - USB Isolator chip that isolates the DAC from any negative effects of power coming in from the USB
And if that's not enough for your £44 it also contains the rectification and regulation circuitry so that all you need for a good linear PSU is simply a transformer.
I was powering it from this 6v/4a 50va toroidal (£12) The secondaries are wired in parallel so that more current is available (not that it's needed, but what else are you going to do with 2 secondaries when you only need one)
In practice, this DAC with that PSU does sound very very good. Hide it in a bling case and sell it for £500 and I'd be none the wiser...
I agree RE the pairing of Young DAC to 869...it came across as rather brittle at times, but with the Michell as a source it was completely different (for the better). I felt that the Young DAC perhaps needed a warm-side-of-neutral amp which was never going to be the EAR valve amps. Your 509s were my favourite amps of the day simply because they were such a good match with the Fidelio speakers which thrived on the extra wallop afforded. If ever you decide to throw them out, I know where they would be given a good home That little DAC was great fun, better than many £1K DACs I've heard which once again seems to suggest that price has very little bearing on what you get sonically with DACs.
"Your 509s were my favourite amps of the day simply because they were such a good match with the Fidelio speakers which thrived on the extra wallop afforded. "
The Young is a brighter-than-neutral DAC, I think that's a fair observation, even a criticism. I understand it could be improved with some work to the internal power supplies, but that's for a rainy day and a bored audio designer... It's been on sale 4 years now, so isn't quite SoTA any more. Also, it does not use the lauded ESS Sabre chip, it has a Burr Brown.
Nice baby DAC there Jason, it looks like you're having fun with overkill power supplies!
Firelighters - naughty! Not fair on JLH, either...
We should nip this in the bud before it goes any further - Paul made a mistake saying Young DAC, he meant Mdac... There was no Young DAC in the building.
Also I made a mistake saying the Young had a Sabre chip, I meant to compare to the Calyx which has a more sophisticated version of the Sabre chip with associated implementation.
As for firelighters, yes I am very naughty and I do sometimes like to play with fire(lighters), unlike JLH who was very safe and methodical, and from what I have read, an exceptional engineer and innovator. I have started to investigate his amp circuits to see what I can learn. Already I have discovered a protection circuit he designed that can be used with many amp circuits and looks to be a good candidate for the NVAs. Something tells me JLH circuits and NVA circuits have an affinity...
Nice baby DAC there Jason, it looks like you're having fun with overkill power supplies!
Yes I am having fun with overkill PSUs, as after all it's what makes us all feel special and empowered.
However that particular transformer in the photo is quite small. It's the photo that's HUGE The hifimediy dac can take 4-11vac and I wanted to keep it down close to the 4v level otherwise the regulators on the DAC are just getting hot for nothing. 6v was the lowest available on rapid which gives about 6.6v on the output if it's getting 230v on the input (yes, I'm looking at you AG1500). Without the AG1500 it gives about 7.5v (yes my mains is high)
Overkill would have been finding a 300va 6v transformer
Comments
Inca Tech Claymore (poorly)
A HDD full of toonz.
Some bhajis.
A sense of anticipation and relish.
As it happens I had both my A60s blow one channel in the space of a month of each other.
One of the A60s was driving a brand new pair of £2k speakers I bought as a present for my folks. The speakers were 2 days old and the A60 blew and went into short circuit sending 30V or so into the speaker. However, the speakers were saved and undamaged. Guess how....
...because the amp was plugged into an AG500 ac regenerator. When the amp went short circuit it drew so much current from the AG500 that the AG500 protection circuit was triggered and just shut down before any damage was done
Anyway, personally I'm actively looking at modifying all my NVA amps and designing protection into them.
...it's unpleasant.
That's all i know.
And everyone else coming from afar.
Thanks for today Paul, it was great to hear so many different bits of kit. What struck me about your speakers initially was the amount of low down welly and authority, but what I was left with was their ability to communicate. They seem to have great mid range size and presence, whilst being incredibly open and transparent; a speaker I could live with.
Jason your EAR amps were quite incredible and Dave I would have liked to have done some more careful listening to your amp but home responsibities beckoned.
Paul you mentioned hot dogs for lunch. I was expecting processed tripe mate to taste like the hotdogs we all know, what we found was a bloody meat feast of note, and Jason thanks for the beers which made a certain topic all the more laughable !
You will all have to come to sunny Maidstone next time.
Loved the Tannoys. The only big Tannoys I've ever thought I could live with.
More thoughts when it's not so late and I've had less alcohol ;-)
Will post some pics later...
Very glad you all had a great time.
Best,
Alan
For me these events are characterised first and foremost by the social experience that they present. The hifi/audio side of things is important too, but it is secondary.
I had a great day yesterday. Met up with some old friends and made a new one too.
With regard to the audio side of things we had an interesting time. Not least because so many of the components were essentially pro and semi-pro DIY projects. Paul's speakers, Jason's new music PC and Colin (Wonfor)'s 'Green Goddess' power amp. Even the MDAC that James brought apparently bears his forum name (Sovereign) after being specially modified for him.
James (Sovereign) is introduced by Paul (PAC) of RFC to his visually and acoustically impressive Fidelo speakers: refurbed Tannoy drivers, hadmade cabinets, besopke crossovers, huge sound.
Jason (Figlet) introduces his new music PC to Paul and James. The new PC is a similar approach to Jason's previous NVA TFS, but with a simplified and internal PSU, and without a DAC board (it can be played through the DAC in the motherboard or as we did, through an external USB DAC).
For sources we used both of Paul's turntables, but mainly his Michel Gyro SE. Also Paul's Consonance CD player and Jason's PC (first through James' 'Sovereign' MDAC and then the smaller HifimeDIY DAC).
The preamp used was Paul's Croft Micro.
Jason PC > Sovereign MDAC > EAR 509 (in background) > RFC Fidelos.
We had a good selection of amps. Paul's EAR 860, Jason's EAR 509 monoblocks, Dave's 'Green Goddess' (courtesy of Colin Wonfor) and an NVA AP10P that I brought. In the end we didn't use the NVA. Paul was nervous about its lack of protection circuitry. This has never caused me a problem, but Paul has lavished hundreds of hours and thousands of pounds on his Fidelo speakers and was not prepared to risk them.
The 'Green Goddess' 10 Watts PC Class A.
All 3 amps sounded good. For me the high point was listening to Pink Floyd's 'The Wall' through Jason's EAR 509s. There was more punch and clarity than I've ever heard from a valve amp. My judgement may have been somewhat clouded by Paul informing us that Pink Floyd has mastered the album using that very model of EAR amp into Tannoy speakers back in the day, so the experience took on some degree of added authenticity. Very pleasing.
"The Wall"
Paul seemed quite taken by 'The Green Goddess' and suggested that he may be interested in one of Colin's similar, but higher powered creations. I went along with this. Following the 100W PC EARs the 'Green Goddess' wasn't quite as authorative or dynamic into the big Tannoys. A very smooth and natural performer nevertheless.
The audience (of Jason, James and Dave (Uglymusic)) reassure anxious WAGs that safe arrivals have been made...
I'd be happy to live with any of the amps I heard. None were outclassed by the others. I would have liked to have had a higher powered SS amp to compare to Jason's chunky valve monoblocks, but at the level of price and quality that all of these amps are, it often seems to me that the difference between components becomes a matter of personal and overall system preference.
In any event, no overall verdict was discussed or necessary. I had a really gratifying day all round. Lots of good listening, good music and good company. That so many of the components used had been created by friends (present and absent) seemed very apt. And, quite humbling that people I know can create things that make such wonderful sounds.
Thanks very much to Paul for hosting and to everyone for the miles travelled.
Well done chaps!
The star of the show without a doubt were Paul's speakers:
Mmmm.... big fat shiny speakers....
Mmmm.... pink socks...
Beautiful finish and amazing attention to detail. So much thought and design has gone into these speakers. They sounded wonderful. Commanding, controlled and tuneful bass along with a sweet and detailed mid and treble. I wouldn't normally consider this kind of speaker as I have a bias for ribbon tweaters but I could easily live and die with these speakers.
At this high level of hifi it's really all about personal preference and I thought Paul's speakers would suit someone that favoured a slightly more bass balanced system. The room was literally shaking in its boots when the full wrath of that bass was unleashed.
The highlight though as others have said was the pink floyd - simply sublime.
Now for some large images of amps. First off my EAR 509s...
I like these amps a lot because they suit my system at home and my tastes. Their power, detail and musicality compliments the low and abundant bass I get from my speakers, DAC and relatively small listening rooms.
Next up a Colin Wonfor special - the Green Goddess, worshiped by Dave on a daily basis. Very nice indeed. Maybe not as much clout as the 509s but a beautifully balanced and musical presentation. I would dearly love to hear Colin's 20w production version. I suspect something like that might become my favourite amp.
Finally the EAR 869. On the day this was my least favourite. Paired with the Mdac the sound was a little harsh. Very detailed though.
Paul makes it clear that Swedish red-neck music will NOT be tolerated in his house...
It's time to light the BBQ and Paul is blown away by the latest technology in fire-lighters. Apparently you just plug this baby in and it starts a fire in no time
The food was delicious actually - Paul you are a man of many talents.
In the end though I agree with Ben, the greatest pleasure was in meeting up, making new friends and seeing old friends. James, it was great to meet up and put a face to a long-time Avatar.
Thanks to all for making it a great day, in particular to Paul for being such a gracious and acomplished host and for Ben for opening up the Bishop B&B for me and Dave.
Already looking forward to the next one...
In theory this DAC should sound good:
- Sabre DAC chip (although a cheaper and lesser implementation to the Sabre chip in the Calyx DAC)
- No output stage as such, as the DAC chip can drive the amp directly
- Better than average oscillator for better timing and PRATishness
- USB Isolator chip that isolates the DAC from any negative effects of power coming in from the USB
And if that's not enough for your £44 it also contains the rectification and regulation circuitry so that all you need for a good linear PSU is simply a transformer.
I was powering it from this 6v/4a 50va toroidal (£12)
The secondaries are wired in parallel so that more current is available (not that it's needed, but what else are you going to do with 2 secondaries when you only need one)
In practice, this DAC with that PSU does sound very very good. Hide it in a bling case and sell it for £500 and I'd be none the wiser...
Nice baby DAC there Jason, it looks like you're having fun with overkill power supplies!
Firelighters - naughty! Not fair on JLH, either...
Also I made a mistake saying the Young had a Sabre chip, I meant to compare to the Calyx which has a more sophisticated version of the Sabre chip with associated implementation.
As for firelighters, yes I am very naughty and I do sometimes like to play with fire(lighters), unlike JLH who was very safe and methodical, and from what I have read, an exceptional engineer and innovator. I have started to investigate his amp circuits to see what I can learn. Already I have discovered a protection circuit he designed that can be used with many amp circuits and looks to be a good candidate for the NVAs. Something tells me JLH circuits and NVA circuits have an affinity...
However that particular transformer in the photo is quite small. It's the photo that's HUGE
The hifimediy dac can take 4-11vac and I wanted to keep it down close to the 4v level otherwise the regulators on the DAC are just getting hot for nothing. 6v was the lowest available on rapid which gives about 6.6v on the output if it's getting 230v on the input (yes, I'm looking at you AG1500).
Without the AG1500 it gives about 7.5v (yes my mains is high)
Overkill would have been finding a 300va 6v transformer