Claymore and Headphones

uglymusic

This discussion was created from comments split from: ver 6 inca tech claymore for sale.

james_k_fox

Hey guys, new to the forums.

I have a question about the Inca Tech Claymore amp.  I recently tested out the headphone socket as I was curious how this would work as a headphone amp as well as a power amp.  I have a turntable and CD player and I'm looking to get a decent DAC.  I recently auditioned the Arcam irDAC with the Claymore and my Sennheiser HD650 headphones and I thought it made a energetic combination but I've noticed that the gain output is the same volume as if I had plugged in my speakers.

This forum is the only place I could find, with an hours search, to have knowledge (and admiration) of the Claymore, so I was hoping to pick your brains.  Anyone know if there is a gain dial for the headphone out? If not, would you recommend using the amp for headphone use?

Colin

Hi James,

Not fully understanding your problem.

The Claymore did not disconnect the speaker when you plug in the headphones, The reason for this was due to the original design we did not have headphones in mind. So you had to unplug the speakers to run headphones by removing one plugged in terminal on each speaker and reconnect when you wanted speaker again.

The Headphones socket signal is attenuated to prevent blood and other grey matter from pouring from your ears and damage to you headphones, which normally only need a few mW's to operate not 50W.

This is done with a 150R resistor so with a little Ohms Law at 20V RMS out and a 150R is series with your XR value headphone load you can calculate the voltage output across them at full volume. Now square this calculated volts lets say 1.25V , 1.25*1.25 =1.56 divide by the Ohmic value of you headphones lets make it easy say 10R we get 1.56/10=0.156W or 156mW, ample I hope.

Now the Volume control adjusts the speaker and the headphones level so turn the Knob, if this does not work then the volume is busted or somebody has modified the headphones sockets connection point within the Claymore.Often the case by enthusiastic owners left with a soldering iron and not a clue about using it, (not for keeping the tea warm William, !! ) :-))

As to recommending the Amp for headphones I think I would be to biased to answer that sorry.

Ben or Paul may have tried it, OK wake up you two is only 4.35AM help James. 

:-))

Best Col

uglymusic

Welcome @james_k_fox

In case you're not aware, Colin designed the Claymore.

Alan

I tried warming my tea with a soldering iron, gritty!   :-w

Welcome James, hope you like 'Chews. I use one of Colin's Magnum pre-amps (before Inca tech, I think), I'm so glad to see lots of love for vintage kit!

quickie

I think the last time i used cans with a claymore,was when i used to sell them !

Should work fine,but as col says, plugging them in will not automatically disconnect the speakers .

It just so happens that ive got a white claymore running in my system now (TOCA is undergoing major rebuild) so will plug in my AKG's when i get home, and have a play.

Paul.

Docfoster

Well well well, there i was thinking my claymore was missing a cans socket, and then there it is tucked round the back... :-)

quickie

Lol )

I'm off to Maplin to get a bloody adaptor !

Edit: Found one hidden in the box.........

Colin

Lol )

I'm off to Maplin to get a bloody adaptor !

Sorry Paul no TQ adapters yet.

quickie

Hehe, a headphone cable would be even better Col

My AKG 450's seem to work well with the Claymore btw, i'm happy to report.....

james_k_fox

Hi guys and thanks for the warm welcome!

Colin, thanks for the reply, it's really great to be able to talk with the designer of a piece of Hi-Fi kit that I own, it's a great little amp!

A lot of the kit I own is few years old now (inherited from my father) but it's served me well. However The Claymore was a recent casualty and I had it repaired by a local AV repair & service center (lost power to the unit altogether).

I will try to explain my question a little better for you Colin as I'm not sure what the reference for this amp is.  The recent repair I had done meant a rebuild of the power section I believe, I will have to dig out the receipt to list replacement parts to give you all a better idea of what was done.  Before I had this work done I wasn't able to test the headphone out on the amp as I was in the process of replacing my broken headphones, so I'm not sure if the output of the HP Amp was as loud as it is now. Basically I can't go past 9 o'clock on the volume knob with HP's in and even that leaves your ears ringing for a time afterwards, which has made me wonder if the HP out is attenuated ( I hope thats the right term). 

Is this normal and did the rest of you chaps manage to test out your HP's. If so did you get a similar result?

Hope my question makes a little more sense this time.  I did wonder if this amp was made for low impedance headphones rather than high impedance like my Sennheiser HD650's which are 300 Ω.

Thanks for the help fella's

james_k_fox

It also occurs to me about the time this amp was built/released.  Were headphones harder to drive back in the 80's? Perhaps it's also related to the phono stage, being a quieter output volume than a cd player, perhaps the volume knob will need more room if I try it with my turn table

I maybe just blabbering

Dan

................

Colin

If the enumerators ie the 150 ohm I mention are in the amp still, output will be about 550mW OK a little loud but not ear bleeding as you describe,

It sound like your local handyman with a soldering iron may have modified it, if you very worried I suggest open the lid and check, or post a internal photo so Quickie and I can check, I am sure Paul can sort it out in any case. 

OK get the camera out and start clicking.

Blabbering is OK it normally stops I found when I play music 

:^o

Alan

James, internal pics would be great (we love pics).

Are you based in the UK?

(BTW, Col still blabbers when he is playing music...)

Colin

James, internal pics would be great (we love pics).

Are you based in the UK?

(BTW, Col still blabbers when he is playing music...)

I do, and sing badly

Alan

Is that why your amps need to be so powerful? O:-)

Colin

10KW would be better, but the grid goes down when I switch it ON, need a Atomic Reactor next project I think, and free glow in the dark skin cool  8-X

Alan

When are you going to make an 'Iron Man' 'ARC' reactor then? A nice little cold fusion device, powerful enough to power a city (or megalomaniac's battle-bot), or a single 100w Iridium amp, small enough to fit in your pocket?

Colin

Tried it and the CIA took it away saying they could use to do there Burgers on

james_k_fox

James, internal pics would be great (we love pics).

Are you based in the UK?

(BTW, Col still blabbers when he is playing music...)

Yes, based in Lincoln, Lincolnshire

james_k_fox

If the enumerators ie the 150 ohm I mention are in the amp still, output will be about 550mW OK a little loud but not ear bleeding as you describe,

It sound like your local handyman with a soldering iron may have modified it, if you very worried I suggest open the lid and check, or post a internal photo so Quickie and I can check, I am sure Paul can sort it out in any case. 

OK get the camera out and start clicking.

Blabbering is OK it normally stops I found when I play music 

:^o

Great, will get the lid off tomorrow night or over the weekend and take some snaps, lit as best I can. I have a good camera, so should be able to give you a close view.  I remember that there is a little fuse in the back which can be opened with a coin.  What's section of the amp is that protecting out of curiosity? I really am going off on a tangent now

I've no idea about electronics if you haven't already guessed but I do appreciate the comments and information Colin and co, is very kind of you.

james_k_fox

Well well well, there i was thinking my claymore was missing a cans socket, and then there it is tucked round the back... :-)

Yeah it's easy to miss, especially being all black!

james_k_fox

Hehe, a headphone cable would be even better Col

My AKG 450's seem to work well with the Claymore btw, i'm happy to report.....

Excellent that's good news. Thanks for checking Paul (have I got that right? )

What o, clock did you have your volume control at a comfortable level might I ssk?

quickie

Your welcome James.

About 9.00 o clock ish was plenty loud enough, though I think the AKG's are pretty sensitive.

Looks like you have a nickel fronted Claymore. Only a few of these were ever built. Very nice !

Paul.

Colin

Hi Paul and James 10 Nickel fronted Claymore for the UK.

The front panel is brass not aluminium then plated with nickel, and a few went on to be plated with Gold.

james_k_fox

Awesome!! I had no idea.  I thought the gold ones were the only rare amps  I need to polish the front from finger prints before I show you guys some photo's of it

uglymusic

Cool!  B-)

james_k_fox

Can I ask Paul, was it yourself I've seen on here that has pimped and repaired other Audiochews Members amps?  From what I can recall, it sounded like you made a fair few improvements to cable quality and certain components within the Amp.  Assuming my amp can still be classed as factory stock, I was wondering what improvements can be made to this great little amp? That is if there are any real audio improvements to be had from this amp

james_k_fox

Your welcome James.

About 9.00 o clock ish was plenty loud enough, though I think the AKG's are pretty sensitive.

Looks like you have a nickel fronted Claymore. Only a few of these were ever built. Very nice !

Paul.

Thanks for the info Paul.  So looks to be about the same then.  Our headphones are probably the same impedance range I guess.  Looks to me like the headphone out on this amp gives plenty of room for using a pair of hard-to-drive Planar headphones like the LCD-2's or HiFiMAN HE-6's.

Good to know

quickie

Yes, I have done a few repairs and upgrades.

It's well worth recapping these amps now due to their age, and there are a few component upgrades you can do at the same time too.

Looking forward to the shiny pics

james_k_fox

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2JT-W8GU2P7b0ZUTzIxRUYtN1U/edit?usp=sharing

Managed to take a quick pic last night with my phone.  Will get more pics when I can this week

uglymusic

Thanks James

I don't seem to access to the file.

james_k_fox

Bummer.  Ok try this

uglymusic

Nice!

james_k_fox

It really is a good looking amp.  I love it's retro style.

BTW Colin, I did see your request to view the previous photo link I posted.  I haven't accepted it yet as I've managed to get an image inserted into this post but did you still want to download the image?

I've joined photobucket to be able to post images directly into the forum post, so I can and the link to view it on there too if people wish to view it that way.

http://s768.photobucket.com/user/jimandasideoffries/media/20140223_221758_zps0169a1e4.jpg.html

james_k_fox

I took 2 images, both now on photobucket.

Colin

Thanks James, it been a long time since I saw one of these's

This one was used in a advert I see if I can find it and plonk it up.

Colin

Colin

This never works, dam digital lies.

Dave: Oh yes it does, Mr Analogue :-)

uglymusic

I wonder how many of those dealers are still in business?

Colin

Thanks Dave, Billy Vee for sure, Rayleigh,Mike Manning we still have some of those at TQ.

http://telluriumq.com/page39.html

Colin

I wonder how many of those dealers are still in business?

Well Paul (Quickie) is still about.

james_k_fox

Ha ha! That's great! I saw that image floating around the internet when I was looking up more information on the Claymore.  Didn't realise it was an advert

I wonder if my father bought his Claymore from the Newark store (Peter Ellis Audio), I think I remember many a visit to the Hi-Fi store as a lad when we were wandering the markets and antique stores of Newark.  I can still remember that smell of brand new audio tech

james_k_fox

I wonder how many of those dealers are still in business?

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Docfoster

I bought things from Audio Excellence in Cardiff many moons ago. I believe the store is now Audio T.

quickie

Very nice James !

We sold dozens of the standard black ones, back in the late 80's.

I managed to pick a white Claymore (well more cream now really) a few years back...........tis lovely

james_k_fox

Nice Paul, really nice. :-)

Colin

Very nice James !

We sold dozens of the standard black ones, back in the late 80's.

I managed to pick a white Claymore (well more cream now really) a few years back...........tis lovely

Dave Alan and I may take a raiding party to your place soon.

quickie

Lol.....beware of the ginger pussy col

uglymusic

The what?????