Sovereign's MTBPS

DocfosterDocfoster
in Other hi-fi gear
That's "Mother Trucker Balanced Power Supply" (as Christened by Mr. S)...

Arrived today.

Blimey.
Both the TFS and the TOCA plumbed in.
Quite remarkable realism. Dynamic range has exploded. Extreme smoothness.
Breath taking.

Comments

  • BrumjamBrumjam
    Where's the "mother truckin" pics?  :D  I have to see a pic of this baby.
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    edited January 2015
    image

    It's the very large box on the floor. (Rotated 90 degrees to the rest of the kit - I was fiddling about :-D The vents on the lid are at the back).
    It weighs 32kg and is mainly full of a custom wound 3kva balanced transformer.
    It is really making a difference.
    Haven't chopped and change much yet. Initially just plugged in the TOCA SECA power amp and left the TFS media PC feeding of the AG1500 regenerator. Now have both coming off the MTBPS and things are even better.
    The presentation is just so smooth and sweet across the frequency range - high frequencies (eg cymbals) are just sublime, and bass seems to have more depth and definition (kick drums sound and feel more like kick drums!). I'm even noticing now at moderate volumes. Vocals on hi-res tracks are being better exploited. Quite tear jerking in fact. Amazing and wonderful how extra degrees of realism bring additional emotional impact...

    PS please note the fragments of polystyrene on the floor in the photo. There was a certain excited frenzy as the packaging was stripped from around the MTBPS...! (Not my proudest moment...)
  • sovereignsovereign
    Glad you like it Ben.
    The reason why it's so large is because it has an oversized 5kVa iron core, this helps keep the toroidal dead quiet as the core will be extremely hard pushed to saturate as others do.
  • uglymusicuglymusic
    Is this a home build Sov? Or did you buy it?
  • BilliumBBilliumB
    Were you using a regenerator before?

    How do they compare?

    Cheers. Bill
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    edited January 2015
    Is this a home build Sov? Or did you buy it?
    It's a home build. I'd read that he was getting good results from one he'd researched and built himself. I know that Sov' has similar tastes to me (NVA, Wonfor class A, speakers with large bass drivers, etc.,...) and that he, like me, had found benefits from an AG1500, so I felt confident to ask him to build me one. It seems that my confidence was not misplaced! :)
    Were you using a regenerator before?

    How do they compare?

    Cheers. Bill
    Yes indeed. Have had an AG1500 for about 2 years. You can see it on its edge to the left of the photo above.
    It was a worthwhile investment. Tightened things up. However, with the current power amp (TOCA SECA 20) I've noticed that the AG1500 has a compression effect on the bass. This is not something I'd noticed on previous power amps (NVA TSS and an Inca Tech ID25).
    I haven't played around much with the various permutations possible with the AG1500 and BPS, but of those I have tried I'd say my order of prefence is (5 being most):
    1. TFS media PC & TOCA SECA power amp both straight from the mains.
    2. TFS & TOCA both from the AG1500 (more clarity, but bass compressed).
    3. TFS from AG1500 & TOCA from mains (good clarity, bass not compressed).
    4. TFS from AG1500 & TOCA from BPS (smoother, sounds more discrete, better bass).
    5. TFS & TOCA both from BPS (As 4, but with very silky trebble, things very naturally rendered across the frequency range: trebble well extended, midrange palpable, and bass - really quite visceral).

    The BPS has surpassed my expectations. I'd hoped it would bring what the AG1500 did, but without the compressive effect on the bass. In actuality it has improved on everything, simply made things yet more realistic.
  • uglymusicuglymusic
    Fantastic!
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    Glad you like it Ben.
    The reason why it's so large is because it has an oversized 5kVa iron core, this helps keep the toroidal dead quiet as the core will be extremely hard pushed to saturate as others do.
    Cunning...
    (And Sov, don't you know...a certain someone...who's recently constructed a 10kVa BPS...? ;) )
  • sovereignsovereign
    edited January 2015
    Hi Ugly
    The balanced toroidal was made by someone who has been doing nothing but making toroidals all of his working life.  I built the chassis, inrush circuits, breakers etc.  From his set up he makes toroidals to some of the best known manufactures, however everything he makes for others has to be made to their spec, and he clearly states that there spec is shite, as it is always screwed down to a price, Like everything is I guess.  


  • sovereignsovereign
    What he makes for his own clients is somewhat different and uses at least twice the copper, for instance, of most other manufacturers.  About 12 months ago I took my Airlink 3kVa toroidal to him, he measured it and it wasn't 3kVa at all, it was a constant 2.3kVa!!! and it hummed (rattled) like mad.  The 3kVa Toroidal Ben has is almost completely quiet, no matter how much you try and draw from it and it is a constant and perfect 3kVa.As mentioned.  One of the advantages of my balanced 3kVa toroidial is it uses an oversized core (5kVA) to allow a very low flux density for low mechanical noise and the core will probably never saturate, however it weighs in around 28kg, It is continuously rated at 3kVA 

    Ive been playing around with balanced power for about six years and this toroid is by far the best one I have used.  It is completely screened and the screen is of course earthed and dead quiet. It is quiet due to its good design and materials used rather than having to quieten it down with the use of DC blockers or layers of doping etc.


  • uglymusicuglymusic
    Thanks James

    That's very interesting.

    I'll put balanced power on my 'investigate in 2015' list.
  • BilliumBBilliumB
    Hi James

    Really interesting to hear a bit more about your progress with balanced power. I'm certainly planning to go in that direction, but intend to sort out my mains and earthing first - which probably won't happen until the end of the year at the earliest.

    We spoke on the phone some months ago before your latest MTBPS, do you have any plans for further improvements? Some people were recommending EI transformers, but I've not come across anyone who has actually gone down that route. Others were recommending separate BPS's for source vs amp - but again not had much feedback on that either.

    Well done on moving things forward.

    Cheers. Bill
  • sovereignsovereign
    Never tried EI transformers but on my AoS thread I gave a lot of info on them. I've recently been messing around with Rcore transformers, at this early stage there not much cop
  • BilliumBBilliumB
    Yes, I read all of that thanks. So are you still looking for something better?

    Cheers. Bill
  • sovereignsovereign
    Not really mate. I've asked a few Rcore manufacturers to make me a balanced transformer and they seem to be baffled by the concept so maybe it can't be done, I don't know.
    I'm very happy with what I have and I believe it to be somewhat of a reference. So much so I gave it a special name ;-)
  • BilliumBBilliumB
    How well do you find it works on mains supplies where toroids normally buzz quite a lot? I currently use a DC blocker with my Conrad Johnson CA200 amp.

    Cheers. Bill
  • sovereignsovereign
    I dont know mate, never had a buzing toroidal.  The only thing hat has ever rattled in my system was a '3Kva' Airlink BPS.  I put a AC blocker on it and the hum stopped dead.  But at the end of the day my plan was to have a balanced toroial that would stand alone due to its good design unaided.
    If your Valve amp buzzes, provided it is not faulty, I would guess a BPS or regen could make quite a difference to the sound of your systemm. 
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    Bill,
    I've had mine plugged in for only a day or so. It has been silent (unless one puts one's ear right next to it) 99% of the time. It has revved up for just a few seconds on a few occasions. Not more than once an hour, probably less. It's not audible when music is playing (ie I haven't been aware of it happening at all when listening to music).
    Had the washing machine on earlier and that didn't seem to effect it, likewise the fridge. Haven't checked things systematically beyond those. In any event, it's not an issue for me.
    I could try it powered by the AG1500 at some point, as that completely cured the buzz I used to get from my NVA amps.
  • sovereignsovereign
    From speaking with Power Inspired who make your regen, they say if you plan on using the regen and MTBPS together then you should put the regen first in the mains chain then the MTBPS.  They say that it wouln't increase impedence at all, I don't know about that, my knowledge is limited.
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    From speaking with Power Inspired who make your regen, they say if you plan on using the regen and MTBPS together then you should put the regen first in the mains chain then the MTBPS.  They say that it wouln't increase impedence at all, I don't know about that, my knowledge is limited.
    For some reason, I had a hunch that it would be that way round. Tho as my hunch had a 50:50 chance, no credit due!
    To be honest, I would not trade an iota of what the MTBPS does to the sound from the speakers, for the removal of occasional, quiet and brief buzzes that I can't hear when the music is playing.
    I don't know how any of this stuff works, but I'm worried that the AG1500, even if placed behind the MTBPS will dampen down the TOCA. Only one way to find out. I'll give it a go over the next week or so.
  • uglymusicuglymusic
    From speaking with Power Inspired who make your regen, they say if you plan on using the regen and MTBPS together then you should put the regen first in the mains chain then the MTBPS.  They say that it wouln't increase impedence at all, I don't know about that, my knowledge is limited.
    For some reason, I had a hunch that it would be that way round. Tho as my hunch had a 50:50 chance, no credit due!
    To be honest, I would not trade an iota of what the MTBPS does to the sound from the speakers, for the removal of occasional, quiet and brief buzzes that I can't hear when the music is playing.
    I don't know how any of this stuff works, but I'm worried that the AG1500, even if placed behind the MTBPS will dampen down the TOCA. Only one way to find out. I'll give it a go over the next week or so.
    Suck it and see!
  • BilliumBBilliumB
    I'm hoping my mains might be better when I put in a dedicated consumer unit and radial for the hifi, hence reducing the impact of any local interference. I find the dc blocker really cuts down on toroid buzz. I currently use an old Ben Duncan isolation transformer and that also buzzes, so I don't think there is anything basically wrong with the amp (ss by the way, with an integral passive pre), although being American and designed for 60Hz mains (albeit rated at 240v) might be an issue.

    Cheers. Bill
  • sovereignsovereign
    Hi Bill

    Just make sure you run your radial straight from the incoming supply to the house , after the meter. Therefore you would have one set of tails feeding your house consumer unit and another set of tails feeding your dedicated consumer unit for your hifi. I can upload some pictures if it helps.
  • DocfosterDocfoster
    edited January 2015
    Hi Bill

    Just make sure you run your radial straight from the incoming supply to the house , after the meter. Therefore you would have one set of tails feeding your house consumer unit and another set of tails feeding your dedicated consumer unit for your hifi. I can upload some pictures if it helps.
    My hifi runs off a dedicated MCB. Obviously Sov's is a much more substantial solution than that.
    I do have that option *in our attic* (electrician fitted separate consumer unit up there when we had it converted). I could take the hifi up there to test it... But i'm not going to! :D

    (Sov - I like your honest Jon "after the meter" comment. As if anyone here would dream of tapping-off the supply *before* the meter... ;) )
  • BilliumBBilliumB
    Yes James, that's the plan. Also wondering about the most effective earthing setup as I'm on a TT system and currently have a single earth spike that's been there for some years. One thing I'm considering is a line of well spaced spikes following the ditch at the side of our lane - this should keep them well watered!

    Cheers Bill
  • sovereignsovereign
    Fairpoint Ben, I have seen some people tapping into the mains before the meter but that was in Cape Town.
    Bill if you look at some of the art of sound threads there is a shed load of information regarding her earthing, someone to look out for that you can trust is Alli Tait, be careful because incorrect earthing can cause a nasty shock
  • BilliumBBilliumB
    Yes, I think I've read all of Ali's stuff, and the relevant archive stuff. I've currently got a thread running on AoS (Earthing 'madness'), but not getting many bites! I know you've commented.

    I've got plenty of space around the house, and a 3 tonne digger, so am considering something significant on the earthing front. Yes, I fully understand the safety issues - it's generally easier for me as I'm out in the sticks on a TT (local earth spike) system, rather than on PME like most people. Clearly bonding etc all has to be done properly.

    Cheers. Bill
  • sovereignsovereign
    "I've got plenty of space around the house, and a 3 tonne digger, so am considering something significant on the earthing front"
    My kind of guy!  Now that would be some worthwhile pictures to post......
  • BilliumBBilliumB
    It's probably not going to happen until next year, but I'll certainly take plenty of pictures.

    At the moment I'm trying to find out what has worked for other people. One suggestion I've had from someone in the industry is to put in a 'rf earth' using thick coax connected as follows - screen and centre core connected together and to earth, centre core connected to an earth terminal, or outer on an unused phono at the kit end - the idea being a low impedance route to earth for higher frequency noise that will 'see' a simple 16mm2 earth cable as high impedance. A key issue is making the connection to earth using something that won't corrode and act as an rf detector. One option I'm considering is a big stainless steel plate thrown down into my well! For safety reasons it might be a good idea to add a suitably rated capacitor in the line.

    At the moment I'm still considering the options before all the upheaval!

    Cheers. Bill
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