Windows pimp my ride.
Hi All
Have we had a Windows discussion yet?
Sondale has very kindly sent me his Uptone Regen for my listening pleasure (or otherwise) which I’ll be posting some thoughts on once I’ve listened.
http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen
I thought that it may also be fun to have a general chat around Windows and the various software players and add-ons (gizmo’s) available these days.
Could be fun.
I hope so.
However I also understand that the topic can cause a certain amount of controversy (circular arguments) with some believing that ‘’bits are bits’’ and therefore nothing much can be done to influence the sound PC playback wise. That take has not matched my own experience but I really do welcome and respect such opinions which can help the discussion along.
My main aim with this thread is to help the curious make their own minds up and give some assistance along the way if possible.
I’ll be back with some thoughts on the Regen used on PC and PI on the PI thread.
But I’ll post some other thoughts along the way for the sake of conversation.
All opinions welcome but please play nice.
Comments
I don't really understand the nuances of how computers or digital audio work.
Worse, my DAC is all built into my media PC, so I'm not currently in the market for externalised gadgetry.
Regarding the blurb for the USB regenerator...
"low-jitter clock". I remember installing one of these in an old Marantz CD63SE about 12 years ago. I think it made a difference. I don't know how that application compares to this one.
"impedance matching". I've heard of this before, but have never taken the time to understand how it effects things.
In my own setup JRiver in Windows 7, I can certainly hear differences in terms of output mode (ASIO, WASAPI, Direct Sound, etc.,...). And to me ASIO (which I think by-passes Windows completely and sends the stream "directly"(?) to the ASUS soundcard) sounds clearly best. So in some sense (not sure which excatly) I would agree that "bits are not bits". In other senses maybe they are!
So at work I have W8.1 running Foobar with ASIO (I don't use much video so don't feel the need for JRiver) via USB to Amanero I2S converter, DIY DAC and DIY headphone amplifier.
I don't use the USB 5v feed anywhere in the system, all seperate boards have there own dedicated linear PSUs.
At home is W7 again via Foobar ASIO into Amanero for USB, onto a Curryman DAC and COAX into Silicon Chip HQDAC (DIY). Again dedicated linear PSU's for the various boards.
Everything I have "tweaked" into the system has been a positive improvement (all credit to other people who have thought, designed and shared, I simply followed and was grateful).
Contemplating the 8.1 to 10 jump...
My computer begs me on a daily basis to upgrade from 7 to 10, but I'm nervous in case something goes wrong / it doesn't work as well. Your reports of positive whisperings is emboldening me... :-)
Now then Dave no taking the MichaelJ
OK what would be really useful would be for people to post links to the subject under discussion.
Mr Doc I remember that sexy beast that you use so a link would be great also @ Chris with Foobar.
Let’s talk hardware for a while.
In terms of Jplay (more on that to come) my set up is pretty low rent but sounds pretty good to my ears.
2X
https://www.techpowerup.com/200609/asrock-intros-celeron-j1900-based-q1900dc-itx-motherboard
£64.00 from Amazon and pretty good IMHO (Chris?)
16GB of ram in each.
Also
A couple of these for the running the OS on.
https://www.shop.bt.com/products/sandisk-120gb-ssd-plus-sata-6gb-s-2-5--solid-state-drive-sdssda-120g-g25-B23F.html?utm_source=dabs+migration&utm_medium=redirect&utm_campaign=auto
I really like the Mini ATX/ITX type boards which are good enough for the job and easy to power.
For the on board supply I use PICOPSU
Something like these http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.417/.f
For the main brick supplies 2 of these linears
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-97w-dc-fixed-voltage-bench-power-supply-xm21x
Yup states 13V but that can be adjusted down to 12V via an internal trimmer.
So nothing overly expensive or tweaky.
I’ve used these for a while now and am fairly pleased with their performance.
Software Windows 10 home on one and pro on tother.
I love W10 and have had a ring side seat watching it develop as part of the insider development program (me and 20 million others).
It really does keep and develop all of the good parts of W7 and the few working parts from W8-8.1.
I hated W8 and was pretty glad to move on.
Windows 10 is a really nice platform IMHO and sounds a little better that the previous offerings. It’s robust, has a great (fast) built in browser (edge) and upgrading from authorised W7 -8 is free and reversible should you not like the results.
I’ve read a few of the horror stories that usually accompany new software but I’ve never had a moment’s problem with the version available at the release. 9some of the earlier versions where flaky to say the least.
Free and reversible
What’s not to like.
I’ve also been having a play with this software.
https://bitsum.com/
It’s been around for ages and it’s free to try over 30 days.
Here a good thread to have a look at but the last 3 pages say it all.
It’s easy to use and makes no permanent changes to the OS.
Worth a try.
The SSDs are now very affordable and make bootup times and general usage so much faster, a great place for the OS and essential programmes (apps) to live. Then fall back on huge capacity HDD's for music storage, these are also much cheaper than ever now.
I've not yet used a linear PSU for the main power feed, instead cutting in at USB level with smaller, dedicated supplies.
I have to admit to, after much tweaking and becoming accustomised, actually prefering Win8.1 to 7! I'll probably be burned for that one
Onto Foobar, for me is the free music player of choice. C-Play is a little better but has an attrocious UI.
Foobar has many plug-ins available and, hardware willing, can do almost anything you may require with audio files. The UI is tunable to personal preference and there are many third party UI's available for it as well. (see picture at end of post for the simple look I use)
Here is a very useful guide to setting up and optimising Foobar for best results.
http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/7039/basic-foobar-configuration-1st-posts
I've never looked into Bitsum, seems your link didn't take for the forum mentioned. I'd be interested to read that and the settings you've settled on that work best for you.
Hi Chris
Thanks for the info
The mini ITX I pointed to is a quad core and whilst not the most powerful PC around it’s easy to build a pretty good workhorse around one.
IMHO spinning HD’s put voltage spikes back onto the supply so I avoid them when I can but ATM it’s not possible so I use a NAS for music storage so at least it’s away from the music end of things.
W8 preferable to 7 well it’s all about opinions and personal taste.
So no one gets to be wrong.
OK let’s try again
http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/1718-processlasso-and-enhancements-sound-quality/
With processlaso be sure to switch the hyperthreading off as the program allocates Cores to each task. Also set the program to run in games mode which is the highest quality. Then just set your music player to be seen as a game.
It’s really easy to use and requires no specialist know how.
I’ll say nothing about the sound and wait for your thoughts.
Foobar is good but for a few dollars more you can have Jriver which is loads better to use IMHO and has some pretty powerful DLNA/UPNP functions built in and a really nice android app (gizmo). But again horses for courses.
https://www.jriver.com/
AHHH CPLAY
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/31286.html
Yes I remember using that on Alex’s recommendation and you are right in that it sounds good but it’s a pig to use. Jplay streamer goes way beyond that TBH and sounds superb but I’d rather leave that for the software discussion if that’s ok.
But yes I love RAM players.
I’m away for a few days as it’s my wife’s birthday and as the all expenses paid trip to India has been taken by you know who (they always seem to get in first) I’ll be staying closer to home.
But Spain well I’m hoping to get back there soon to visit Tom Mann.
Thanks Shoom. Fuck it. I'll give it a go over the weekend... :-)
And agreed about Windows 8. I had it on my laptop and upgraded to 10 the moment it became available. A vast improvement on 8.
:P
If I don't try first let us know how you get on with the 10 upgrade.
Thanks for your support. I may try the upgrade over the weekend...
'Ere we go...
It's an ASUS motherboard (which is heatsinked, so no fans, and all SSDs means no moving parts (except when ripping discs, and I do connect a HDD for some ripped movies).
ASUS Xonar soundcard.
Bluray drive.
Double linear PSUs (toroids) in the black box underneath the head unit (the two separate cases are connected by 2 separate umbilical cables feeding motherboard and soundcard).
Lid is held on by strong magnets. Comes off with a bit of a tug...
And the aerial view...
This worked for me when the install stalled! 1) open cmd 2) type "net stop wuauserv" (this will stop windows update service) 3) Wait for a few minutes 4) type "net start "wuauserv" (this will start windows update service). Hope this makes sense.
I think it's excellent, at the moment I'm very satisfied with the sound the machine puts out. Although, others have told me that more recent Xonar cards and DACs have improved things further. The fact the Xonar continue to offer user-swappable op-amps in some of their card / DAC products somehow fills me with confidence and glee about their prorducts. Absolutely no guaruntee of quality, just wanted to express that! :-)
In recent years my upgrades have been to my speakers and amplifier. I would imagine that the next time I get upgradeitis it could well be the DAC / card I'm looking at for a cure...
If I may return the compliment, I think your case looks very cute. :-) Not disimilar to my eyes to the TFS actually.
Also, I note you mention fanless cooling. I think there's something very special about turning on a PC and it being as close to silent as its possible to be. In addition, I like the hifi equipment to posess an intentionally warm heat sink. May be I've spent to long around Colin's amps...
Thanks again for these suggestions chaps.
After a few hours over the weekend of trying (responding to various error messages with various on-line fixes), and failing, to coax Windows 10 to find a home on the TFS , I am trying your suggestions this evening.
I'll let you know how I get on.
One of the previous error messages had sugggested a problem with the integrated updates in the complete install, following your instructions appeared to bipass the problem.
All installed now and working fine. :-)
Hugely appreciated.
But if Joe thinks his computer of flashing lights, wheels and bizarre tape feeds is Windows 10 compatible, he needs a new prescription for his horn-rims...
Nice work Doc
I remember the Windows 10 Insider program recommending that method to anyone having problems installing the latest B test.
So I’ve become quite used to doing things that way and have no worries with it.
I really do like the Desktop and general feel of W10. Do try Edge which I’ve found to be fast and reliable and pretty all around slick.
Let me know your thoughts on W10 once you’ve had time to acclimatise.
Good work
Also I upgraded my laptop to W10 a few months ago, so am used to working my way around the surface features.
But, what's struck me, completely unexpectedly, in the first 24 hours of having W10 on the media PC is that I'm thinking the sound has changed a bit. Not a lot. But a bit. I did tweak the settings a bit in a way that I hadn't on W7, so not a fair comaprison at all, but I am sure there's a tiny bit more top-end and/or separation (in a good way I think). To the extent that I was able to edge the speakers back a bit for even more body and bass as they sounded a titchy bit thin where they were in their Windows 7 position.
I may be imagining it.