Borrowed a friend's DACMagic recently, only to be disappointed that my aged pc did nothing but argue with it (excuse personification - it's designed to obscure my lack of technical understadning of these things). But have recently done a most excellent deal with Col on a Project DAC, and everything communicating smoothly. Nice little addition.
This sounds like a nice step up. I seem to remember your PC audio was running through an ageing off-the-rack soundcard via a headphone jack. I'm assuming you're still using JRiver...? I seem to remember your soundcard couldn't deal with an ASIO stream from JRiver. Can your new DAC manange this...? (I'd certainly hope so.) AFAIC, soundwise ASIO is significantly better than the other options.
Doc, I love that your memory holds on to such details !
And yes, everything about my pc is decrepit. There should be some kind of sanction for cruelty to the electronic elderly.
However, your question raises a bit of an issue for me. Yes, I'm still using JRiver. ANd yes, the Project will manage ASIO. However, when downloading the necessary intalls, I came across this from Foobar:
"Please note that this component is meant for systems where ASIO is the only available output method. It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance."
So I'd be interested to hear thoughts on this (hopefully at a level I'm going to be able to understand!) as I have to admit I chickened out and am currently still using WASAPI.
Not sure what they mean by "bugs". :-/ Sometimes one needs to adjust latency settings in the ASIO driver to prevent stuttering. But that's not a bug, but rather an expected possible issue. Try it and see. You can always change it back to WASAPI at the click of a mouse. Is this the first time you've praised my memory...? ;-) And apologies for disparaging your Pc. Reading back my earlier post, it does come across as a bit snooty! :-D
I like the word foobar. It is pleasing. But, yes, their use of " " was rather provocative!! I'm liking that you think I have any idea what latency settings are. But fortunately I have Chews to help me. Anyway, I'm persuaded and will give it a go this evening and see what I get.
And don't worry, my pc isn't offended.Like you, Doc, its memory is generally too poor to remember anything long enough to hold a grudge
I think when the choice is between WASAPI or ASIO it comes down more to the actual equipment you are using. My old laptop, when it was running XP was much happier with WASAPI, with ASIO stuttering no matter what adjustments were made. Since I changed the OS to 7 and on using my much newer Win8.1 PC, ASIO runs perfectly and comes over better to my ears.
This seems to be echoed on various sites with preference falling either way, mainly based on whether problems are encountered on older machines/OS's such as "clicks" or drop-outs but also on sound quality, which again could be equipment sensitive along with being in the ears of the listener.
I'm liking that you think I have any idea what latency settings are. But fortunately I have Chews to help me.
:-) See here (I like the way the article is entitled "The Truth About Digital Audio Latency", as if there is some huge conspiracy to spread misinformation about it. (Probably by "audiophiles".)
I think when the choice is between WASAPI or ASIO it comes down more to the actual equipment you are using. My old laptop, when it was running XP was much happier with WASAPI, with ASIO stuttering no matter what adjustments were made. Since I changed the OS to 7 and on using my much newer Win8.1 PC, ASIO runs perfectly and comes over better to my ears.
This seems to be echoed on various sites with preference falling either way, mainly based on whether problems are encountered on older machines/OS's such as "clicks" or drop-outs but also on sound quality, which again could be equipment sensitive along with being in the ears of the listener.
Absolutely agree with the stutters and drop outs. I've had similar issues on some machines that seemed incapable of working with the stream. Suzy will certainly notice those if they are present! I've never personally experienced problems with sound quality tho. For me ASIO has either worked and has sounded best or has not worked and has been unusable. So your observation adds something to the mix of my understanding. Thanks. May be that's the "bug" the piece Suzy quotes is referring to...?
I never did work out what WASAPI or ASIO were about.
Basically how the digital data gets from the music player (e.g. JRiver) to the soundcard (or DAC). My understanding is that ASIO bypasses the Windows operating system completely. I think WASAPI is the best output mode available within Windows as it avoids a lot of the OS dicking about that other audio output modes are subject to.
JRiver themselves state that "WASAPI is the recommended Audio Output Mode for Windows unless your audio device has a well-behaved ASIO driver, and it effectively replaces all legacy output modes including Kernel Streaming and Direct Sound."
Indeed, thank you Chew Tech Dept, and to ex-husband call-out support, with which help I have managed to overcome the creaks and groans of my poor old pc to safely trial using the DAC with ASIO.
Things started well. The volume seemed lower than with WASAPI for some reason (??) but was playing nicely for about 10 seconds. And then..silence. "Aha!" I thought, it's droppped out because of one of them darned bugs! Latency adjusting commenced, to no benefit. JRiver was reloaded, to no benefit. I gazed down at the cat, seeking empathy for my disappointment. He gazed back, indeed looking discomforted. Not so much at the lack of toonz, as at the uncomfortable resting place he had chosen to perch himself on. The remote control. With his tiny wee paw pressing directly on the mute button. Cat removed. Mute demuted. Hey presto, Project DAC S Box with an ASIO stream from JRiver.
So far really enjoying. Though this may mostly be due to the sense of satisfaction at not being totally defeated by technical stuff.
Indeed, thank you Chew Tech Dept, and to ex-husband call-out support, with which help I have managed to overcome the creaks and groans of my poor old pc to safely trial using the DAC with ASIO.
Things started well. The volume seemed lower than with WASAPI for some reason (??) but was playing nicely for about 10 seconds. And then..silence. "Aha!" I thought, it's droppped out because of one of them darned bugs! Latency adjusting commenced, to no benefit. JRiver was reloaded, to no benefit. I gazed down at the cat, seeking empathy for my disappointment. He gazed back, indeed looking discomforted. Not so much at the lack of toonz, as at the uncomfortable resting place he had chosen to perch himself on. The remote control. With his tiny wee paw pressing directly on the mute button. Cat removed. Mute demuted. Hey presto, Project DAC S Box with an ASIO stream from JRiver.
So far really enjoying. Though this may mostly be due to the sense of satisfaction at not being totally defeated by technical stuff.
:-D Great. Bloody cats...! Change in volume is an affirming and smugifying sign. Shows that there is a difference to audiophiles vis-a-vis WASAPI. ;-) Let us know how the difference affects SQ! (Especially with regard to dynamic range (ie how quiet and loud moments contrast).
Comments
I seem to remember your PC audio was running through an ageing off-the-rack soundcard via a headphone jack.
I'm assuming you're still using JRiver...? I seem to remember your soundcard couldn't deal with an ASIO stream from JRiver. Can your new DAC manange this...? (I'd certainly hope so.) AFAIC, soundwise ASIO is significantly better than the other options.
(JRiver: Player > Playback Options > Audio Ouput > Output mode > ASIO)
"Please note that this component is meant for systems where ASIO is the only available output method. It is highly recommended to use the default output modes instead of ASIO. Contrary to popular "audiophile" claims, there are NO benefits from using ASIO as far as music playback quality is concerned, while bugs in ASIO drivers may severely degrade the performance."
So I'd be interested to hear thoughts on this (hopefully at a level I'm going to be able to understand!) as I have to admit I chickened out and am currently still using WASAPI.
Sometimes one needs to adjust latency settings in the ASIO driver to prevent stuttering. But that's not a bug, but rather an expected possible issue.
Try it and see. You can always change it back to WASAPI at the click of a mouse.
Is this the first time you've praised my memory...? ;-)
And apologies for disparaging your Pc. Reading back my earlier post, it does come across as a bit snooty! :-D
I'm liking that you think I have any idea what latency settings are. But fortunately I have Chews to help me.
Anyway, I'm persuaded and will give it a go this evening and see what I get.
And don't worry, my pc isn't offended.Like you, Doc, its memory is generally too poor to remember anything long enough to hold a grudge
This seems to be echoed on various sites with preference falling either way, mainly based on whether problems are encountered on older machines/OS's such as "clicks" or drop-outs but also on sound quality, which again could be equipment sensitive along with being in the ears of the listener.
:-)
See here
(I like the way the article is entitled "The Truth About Digital Audio Latency", as if there is some huge conspiracy to spread misinformation about it. (Probably by "audiophiles".)
Phew. :-)
I've never personally experienced problems with sound quality tho. For me ASIO has either worked and has sounded best or has not worked and has been unusable. So your observation adds something to the mix of my understanding. Thanks. May be that's the "bug" the piece Suzy quotes is referring to...?
JRiver themselves state that "WASAPI is the recommended Audio Output Mode for Windows unless your audio device has a well-behaved ASIO driver, and it effectively replaces all legacy output modes including Kernel Streaming and Direct Sound."
Bloody cats...!
Change in volume is an affirming and smugifying sign. Shows that there is a difference to audiophiles vis-a-vis WASAPI. ;-)
Let us know how the difference affects SQ! (Especially with regard to dynamic range (ie how quiet and loud moments contrast).