Help an old man connect his subwoofer

edited May 2022 in Loudspeakers
Hi folks

I got some time today to try out the REL Strata. But I fell almost at the first hurdle.

I'd forgotten that the TQ Pre doesn't have a second set of phono outs to drive the sub. When I've bi-amped using the TQ power amps, the power amps are daisy-chained.

Any thoughts, peeps? I can't think of a solution that I can do without significant expenditure (the car may have gone expensively wrong, so it's looking as if I'm stuck on hi-fi expenditure).

So, best solution: one that I can implement with what I have on hand. Or, ideal solution: one that will have to wait a while.
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  • edited May 2022
    Quick solution on the cheap? 

    CDL Micro Single RCA 90 Degree Splitter M-F-F Male-Female-Female Adapter - Gold (Pack of 2) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ULLATBS/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_JGGH2XQ3WVW4J1ZW766K

    I expect Colin's Pre can drive almost anything, so while it isn't ideal it may be with a stab.


  • Well, that's a thought.
    Thanks, Alan.
    I may wait to see if Col thinks I might blow up the pre, though.
  • Thank you, Chris.
    We don't mention the dreaded high level pass through...
  • Think Alans Idea is the simple way out, at least then you can decide whether or not its for you. Only ever used it via separate pre out, sorry.
  • It's my fault, Ron. It's a while since I've bi-amped with my pre, and I had it in my mind that there were two sets of phono outs.
  • Alan said:
    Quick solution on the cheap? 

    CDL Micro Single RCA 90 Degree Splitter M-F-F Male-Female-Female Adapter - Gold (Pack of 2) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ULLATBS/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_JGGH2XQ3WVW4J1ZW766K

    I expect Colin's Pre can drive almost anything, so while it isn't ideal it may be with a stab.


    50 Ohm min

  • So anything above 50 ohms?
  • So I logged into Amazon today and, lo and behold, it told me I'd already bought the things back in 2016!
    Time to rummage in the Audio bits box. And, look what I found!

    I suspect somewhere on this forum is the reason I bought them. But it doesn't look as if I've used them.
    So I guess it's down to finding some input impedance figures and doing some sums.
  • Good for you.
     Had it been me, well known for my impatience and lack of technical knowledge ( I prefer to call it spontaneity) there could only be two possible outcomes.
    "Previously unrecorded seismic activity on Sussex coastline" or...
    "Large dust cloud settles over Sussex"

  • I'm very tempted, but I have other things on today, so hopefully, any impatience should have dissipated by the time I get back to it!
  • uglymusic said:
    So anything above 50 ohms?
    Yes and normal Ohm not flats OK.
    Good luck Dave. 
    Do not become 50 Ohms less.
  • Indeed, that could be a Big Issue ;)
  • Col, I have no impedance figures. So reading between the lines and having dusted off the abacus, I'm going to give connecting the things a go.
  • uglymusic said:
    So I logged into Amazon today and, lo and behold, it told me I'd already bought the things back in 2016!
    Time to rummage in the Audio bits box. And, look what I found!

    I suspect somewhere on this forum is the reason I bought them. But it doesn't look as if I've used them.
    So I guess it's down to finding some input impedance figures and doing some sums.
    He-he. :-:smile:
    brilliant.
  • Well, nothing's blown up so far.
  • That's a plus.
  • Any rumble's yet?
  • Yes, but I'm not there yet! Hopefully, I can get 80% of the way there this evening.
  •  :) Fun tho... ain't it?
  • I'm getting there. It's sounding better now than earlier.

    The most important control? The phase switch. With it wrong, Charles Mingus sounds as if he's playing with the band in the next studio  :s  
  •  :) Fun tho... ain't it?
    Yes. It is fun.
  • Found much the same myself, took a few days to get near right, the biggest leap was changing the phase. The chap who had it before had been running it with Quad 57s and I was using nva cubetts, only clicked when I reversed his phase setting. I have no idea why that should be the case?
  • Talk to Collin about phase. His care with phase is one of the reasons his gear sounds so good, IMHO. 

    I have a thing about good power supplies and phase when it comes to getting hi-fi to sound good. 
  • edited May 2022
    So I guess I was always going to head for that phase switch. This time is the first time I’ve had a sub sound good at home. 
  • Good, have to say I liked it with my cubetts.
  • Result!
    Yes. When I had an active sub, tuning the phase was critical as, as you say.
    With my current bass cab, running off the stereo amp, through passive crossovers and placed next to the main speakers, I haven’t had an issue. Thankfully so, as I have no way of tuning the phase (other than simply reversing).
  • I'm not sure Collin would have the patience to converse with totally non technical mind like mine, even if he did I'm sure it would be beyond me! I've always just listened and gone from there. Like it, it stays, don't it goes. Simples. I have never owned anything that could be considered decent "Hi-FI" just stuff that plays music, but I know what I like. It is just nice to know that something passed to me that gave pleasure, is doing the same for someone else. 
    Enjoy the journey.
  • Docfoster said:
    Result!
    Yes. When I had an active sub, tuning the phase was critical as, as you say.
    With my current bass cab, running off the stereo amp, through passive crossovers and placed next to the main speakers, I haven’t had an issue. Thankfully so, as I have no way of tuning the phase (other than simply reversing).
    There's only a switch on the REL, so I don't have the ability to choose anything in between.
  • I'm not sure Collin would have the patience to converse with totally non technical mind like mine, even if he did I'm sure it would be beyond me! I've always just listened and gone from there. Like it, it stays, don't it goes. Simples. I have never owned anything that could be considered decent "Hi-FI" just stuff that plays music, but I know what I like. It is just nice to know that something passed to me that gave pleasure, is doing the same for someone else. 
    Enjoy the journey.
    I know next to nothing about electronics, and he talks to me!

    I think you're doing your hi-fi down. NVA gear was my choice for years.
  • edited May 2022
    So, at the moment I have the volume set waaaay down, and the crossover the same way. The  Royds seem to go down a long way for little guys - as I've always thought. But now there's more weight with the sub in the equation.

    Unfortunately, I have to have the REL placed to the side of the TV and I think the low-end soundstage is biased towards it. I think I may try moving the sub a little away from the wall.

    I also meant to reinstall Max2Play on the RPi before I started with the REL. I'm going to do that before I try much more.

    I also want to try a better set of cables (sorry, Ron) because sometimes I notice the low end seems to be lacking in texture or low-level detail. 
  • uglymusic said:
    Docfoster said:
    Result!
    Yes. When I had an active sub, tuning the phase was critical as, as you say.
    With my current bass cab, running off the stereo amp, through passive crossovers and placed next to the main speakers, I haven’t had an issue. Thankfully so, as I have no way of tuning the phase (other than simply reversing).
    There's only a switch on the REL, so I don't have the ability to choose anything in between.
    There I go again. Making assumptions…
  • A switch isn't a bitch, Ben :)
  • Cables were only cheap ones, used to see if the sub was a keeper. I ended up using some converted nva ls2/3?
  • And better cables were worthwhile?
  • To be honest I cant remember being gobsmacked! I think the biggest thing was knowing at least they were decent, probably more phycological than anything else? The one thing that did change was realizing I was "under driving" the sub after a week or so, but its a fine balance.
  • Interesting. I think I'll put off upgrading the cables, then. I'll have to pay out some real money for them, as I'm pretty sure the sack in the loft doesn't have anything long enough.
    I've been gradually throttling back on the sub as I go along, so maybe I'll find I've overshot and have to come up again.
  • Bye the way, did you clean the Gain switch?. It was always a bit of a pig/scratchy to get small/ incremental changes when I got it, age? Never got around to it myself!  I discovered it was being "under driven" when I needed to move it slightly when playing some bass heavy music. Putting my fingers underneath to lift it I touched the driver and realized it was hardly moving, later discovered this was a well known frequency test..... cough!
  • No, I haven't cleaned it. I think it's on the way out because it has quite a bit of play in it, but having decided that was probably the case, I then forgot to wave the switch cleaner in its direction.

    I'll probably not have any time to play with the sub until next week, now, but I'll report back then.

    And I'll make sure I hold the drive unit in my hand and get it to cough.
  • I've managed to listen to the system a few times since we got back from Cornwall, and it all sounds better than when we went away.
    I think I'm listening to the music, not the gear. (In other places, that would be a cue for a forum scuffle, but I think I'm safe here :) ).
  • Do you think the journey-to-Cornwall-and-back upgrade would work for any system?
  • Only if you subscribe to my Online Gold Wealth in Hi-Fi course. There are limited numbers so sign up now.
  • Look, it's in my signature file. Must be a keeper! :)
    Thanks, Ron
  • Good, glad to hear it.
    It was a pleasure to do.
  • edited June 2022
    Still tweaking... I've moved the sub about 6 inches or so further into the room and slightly increased the sub's volume.

    I've lost any feeling of very occasional low notes feeling waaaay on the right channel. I think I'm just about there.

    I'm amazed at how well the sub is integrated. Right now, I'm listening to some well-recorded double bass on the left channel, where the player is going up and down the instrument. It has weight and the sound of the instrument is consistent from high end to low. In case you're wondering, the lowest note on a four-string double bass is E1, or 41.2Hz (https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/d/Double_bass.htm#:~:text=Pitch range&text=The lowest note of a,concertos harmonic tones are used.), so I guess I'm getting somewhere into the sub's range.
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