Dac's and cd players

justshoemark

Hi all. What dac or cd players do you use if you still use one. 
I'm looking to buy a dac but don't no where to start really there's so many out there it's hard to pick? 

uglymusic

I haven't used a CD player in years. All my CDs got ripped to a NAS drive years ago. And now I buy a mix of CDs and hi-res downloads. Qobuz gets streamed through Lyrion Music Server alongside my local files.

My DACs are a cheap Chinese SMSL DAC in the main rig, soon to be given a kick up the backside with a new PSU from Colin, an ancient Mk 1 Young DAC and linear PSU in my headphone rig and an Allo DAC piggybacking on an RPi 4 in my office (soon to get the linear PSU that is currently driving my RPi 5 server). So, cheap or outdated DACs with linear PSUs.

Aside from the linear PSUs, the other part of my digital front ends is experimenting with software for the RPis. Both factors make a significant difference to the SQ.

I guess the third factor is keeping as much of the software Open Source as possible and to run as much of the digital side on computer hardware rather than closed hi-fi streamers that can suddenly be made obsolete by their manufacturer and turned into more electronic waste.

I'm not sure any of that is relevant to your question, but there it is!

AntiCrap

I found my NAS with music and movie,work very well the Panasonic TV. The audio out was far better than any other digital lies machine I have ever used.
I also on TV no2 record to the NAS 3D movies, and managed to put 3D movie on CD.
Has anybody had any experience with this ?

justshoemark

My TV only has an optical output so has to go in a dac witch is a pain. 

quickie

I use an old lightly modded Arcam Alpha 5 CD player. Standard one sounds good too. 

justshoemark

Do you have a dac quickie? 
I have a couple of cd players. But was looking for a dac. 

uglymusic

AntiCrap said:

I found my NAS with music and movie,work very well the Panasonic TV. The audio out was far better than any other digital lies machine I have ever used.
I also on TV no2 record to the NAS 3D movies, and managed to put 3D movie on CD.
Has anybody had any experience with this ?

Trouble is, you've only tried MP3s

uglymusic

quickie said:

I use an old lightly modded Arcam Alpha 5 CD player. Standard one sounds good too. 

How have you modded the Arcam, Paul?

AntiCrap

Yes Paul tell us ! And does stob fibbing?

cj66

I would normally have a Meridian 506 on transport duties and my DIY DAC. The 506 has gone on strike ( suspected dry grease on transport rails ).
Therefore, my Teac CD300 in filling in. Big difference!
The DAC is far from the last word in bit rates and file compatibility but the sound it makes is the best I've heard via coaxial. 

quickie

I must have done the work to the Arcam around 15 years ago now, maybe more. 

It's basically the same as the mods Les Wolstenholme of Avondale Audio used to do for £375 iirc.

NOS, clock mod, op amps and some cap changes

https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/aaaa5_e.html

Sorry Justin, no DAC's here. 

Smiffy

justshoemark said:

Hi all. What dac or cd players do you use if you still use one. 
I'm looking to buy a dac but don't no where to start really there's so many out there it's hard to pick? 

Right. First thing's first... What sort of  budget are you working with ?

Or are you planning on robbing a bank over the weekend ☺️👍

justshoemark

Don't want to spend silly money. But not sure weather to look at older DACs or look at newer ones. I manly use cd. But like to listen to new music by streaming before I buy on cd or vinyl. 

Smiffy

Define silly money.
Because Your version of that statement can vary between different people.

On second thoughts, don't. Neither you nor I are looking to spend just below the threshold of said 'silly money'.

Need to know your budget to give you a realistic idea of what's possible within the scope of your disposable pot of cash.

justshoemark

Up to 300. But happy with second hand. 

Smiffy

Okay, so we have something to go on now.

In my experience, there is much hype out there with companies dressing up their products.
So-called advancements in technology and design, where most are just following the suggested standard support circuitry around a mananufacturers chip.

The real secret sauce comes about when the supporting output components are looked into & understood.
Most manufacturers don't want to spend £'s on components - they want to spend pennies !

You can make your money go further by doing D.I.Y but again, you must invest in time to discover/implement what you want.

Off the top of my head, I would recommend looking(waiting) for a 'Doge' cd player - they are great value for money 👌

uglymusic

justshoemark said:

Up to 300. But happy with second hand. 

I went Chinese (bought from Amazon in case I didn't like it), faced with a maximum budget of £300. You'll need to do your research about which is the current best best, though.

Although, if you're up to it, DIY would be a good bet, as @Smiffy said.

justshoemark

I just brought a topping e30mk2 to try so we will see how that goes. 

uglymusic

justshoemark said:

I just brought a topping e30mk2 to try so we will see how that goes. 

Great minds...

uglymusic

@justshoemark How are you getting on with your Topping DAC?

justshoemark

Well it turned up the other today. So plugged it in. 
Am happy with it for streaming seems detailed and lively. Definitely depends how good the recording is. 
So I plugged a cd player in to see how it compares to my old Kenwood 1100sg which was there top model back in the day. And the Kenwood is alot better. There's alot more depth to the music. I haven't tried it against my other cd player Sony x77es but I will do soon. Have just got my claymore back from Colin and having first listen.  

uglymusic

Interesting. I did some CD player vs streaming comparisons way back in the day, and streaming won! One of the reasons why I am where I am today. But it clearly depends on what's being compared with what.

Does the Topping allow for a linear power supply? I bought my SMSL with a plan to do that upgrade, but it will only happen after I visit Colin next week. He's built me a custom PSU for my entire digital front end.

justshoemark

I am not sure about the PSU. It's a 5v input from a usb lead. 
I think a better dac may improve it and probably a better streaming service. What do you stream from and do you use a computer to stream from. 

uglymusic

justshoemark said:

I am not sure about the PSU. It's a 5v input from a usb lead. 
I think a better dac may improve it and probably a better streaming service. What do you stream from and do you use a computer to stream from. 

It'll be easy enough to get a linear psu if you want to experiment with one.

A better streaming service will also help as long as you're not streaming through an app on your phone or tablet. Streaming through my server, with the phone only functioning as a control brings the quality from Qobuz up to that of my locally streamed files.

I stream from and to Raspberry Pi credit card-sized computers. RPi 3 or 4 for the clients (the 3 is plenty powerful enough for audio, but some associated hardware and software will only work with a 4, so that's the best option).

The SQ from Spotify is OK for earbuds but is lacking through a hi-fi.

My server uses the highest spec Raspberry Pi available, with the files on my NAS. A Raspberry Pi 4 is sufficient for smaller collections. I'm considering getting a 4TB NVME drive in an Argon case that accommodates it and the RPi so that the server is self-contained (I have a little over 2TB of music and I can't find a 3TB drive). I suspect I'll get another increment in SQ simply by doing that. The NAS will act as a backup.

As I think I've said before, my system philosophy is to tweak the hell out of what I've got instead of spending thousands on upgrades. I think you have to be a little nerdy to do this

Does that help (or even make sense)?

justshoemark

Not sure I understand any of that. 😂. I am streaming from my TV using an app. 
I don't no any other way of doing it. 

uglymusic

justshoemark said:

Not sure I understand any of that. 😂. I am streaming from my TV using an app. 
I don't no any other way of doing it. 

Streaming from your TV is why your DAC doesn't live up to your CD players. I'd sort my my streaming source first, then think about power supplies.

Sounds like I'm a nerd It took me a while and some hand holding from members here before I worked it out. Actually, my current setup is one I figured out myself.

I'm more than happy to break it all down, if you want me to.

justshoemark

I see what your saying. But I used my cd player as a transport in to the topping e30 dac and that still didn't sound as good as the cd player on its own. 
But yes I think I need to stream a better way. 

justshoemark

Just plugged in an oldish lap top. And am using usb to the dac and this seems better then the TV. 

uglymusic

justshoemark said:

I see what your saying. But I used my cd player as a transport in to the topping e30 dac and that still didn't sound as good as the cd player on its own. 
But yes I think I need to stream a better way. 

Maybe it's not the DAC for you. Can you return it for a refund?

uglymusic

justshoemark said:

Just plugged in an oldish lap top. And am using usb to the dac and this seems better then the TV. 

That sounds about right.

There are other sources that have less digital noise, which in theory should sound even better.

justshoemark

That dac is only cheap it cost £80 so yes a better dac would help I think. 
The laptop is so so slow as it's old. 
Is streamer not a better way to go? 

uglymusic

justshoemark said:

That dac is only cheap it cost £80 so yes a better dac would help I think. 
The laptop is so so slow as it's old. 
Is streamer not a better way to go? 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but the fact is, if you're going to get a streaming setup that's going to rival your cd and vinyl, you're going to have to be a little more serious about it

I'm sorry about that.

You need a good piece of kit - some kind of hi-fi level streamer and possibly a better DAC, but I'd not point my finger in that direction immediately - and a hi-res streaming source, such as Qobuz or Tidal. Someone... did Spotify ever launch their hi-res tier?

So a streamer, yes. One that will feed your DAC, which I'm thinking is this one?

You could buy one of these as an easy to set up and relatively cheap streamer. You can stream Tidal through it.

Or, if you like messing with computers, there's something like my route, which should give you more for your money.

I'm assuming you want your streamer to be another source for your main rig. If you want to have a standalone streaming rig with its own speakers, you could go for this.

You need to know I have no experience of the above products, but they seem well-regarded.

Does any of the above help?

Smiffy

uglymusic said:

justshoemark said:

Not sure I understand any of that. 😂. I am streaming from my TV using an app. 
I don't no any other way of doing it. 

Streaming from your TV is why your DAC doesn't live up to your CD players. I'd sort my my streaming source first, then think about power supplies.

Sounds like I'm a nerd It took me a while and some hand holding from members here before I worked it out. Actually, my current setup is one I figured out myself.

I'm more than happy to break it all down, if you want me to.

Ahem!!!

Sorry, but I'm currently listening to some files from YTube via optical out from the LG TV here - Plus, I watched that 'Lucy' film today (the soundtrack was pretty amazing with so much layering of the bass spectrum... this only through 27watts of Seca amplifikay-shun).
You will seriously be pushed to hear a better depth of imaging from two channel source !

uglymusic

Smiffy said:

uglymusic said:

justshoemark said:

Not sure I understand any of that. 😂. I am streaming from my TV using an app. 
I don't no any other way of doing it. 

Streaming from your TV is why your DAC doesn't live up to your CD players. I'd sort my my streaming source first, then think about power supplies.

Sounds like I'm a nerd It took me a while and some hand holding from members here before I worked it out. Actually, my current setup is one I figured out myself.

I'm more than happy to break it all down, if you want me to.

Ahem!!!

Sorry, but I'm currently listening to some files from YTube via optical out from the LG TV here - Plus, I watched that 'Lucy' film today (the soundtrack was pretty amazing with so much layering of the bass spectrum... this only through 27watts of Seca amplifikay-shun).
You will seriously be pushed to hear a better depth of imaging from two channel source !

Oh, well. My best guess.

I'm glad your TV is working out for you.

cj66

It's a strange thing.
I used to always be after the best playback quality I could muster.
These days most of my listening is streamed from a phone into very modest equipment. 
YT is still below the line for my proper listening though. Spotify is much better....of course there are others!
I can't remember the last time I used my main system! This may change though as we're moving to a larger house...

uglymusic

I don't listen to my big rig much, either. It competes with the telly (wife) and loses. My main listening is done on my office system, which sounds excellent to my ears. One day, I'll add a sub to fill in what the 2020is don't have

I need a listening room.

Smiffy

uglymusic said:

Smiffy said:

uglymusic said:

justshoemark said:

Not sure I understand any of that. 😂. I am streaming from my TV using an app. 
I don't no any other way of doing it. 

Streaming from your TV is why your DAC doesn't live up to your CD players. I'd sort my my streaming source first, then think about power supplies.

Sounds like I'm a nerd It took me a while and some hand holding from members here before I worked it out. Actually, my current setup is one I figured out myself.

I'm more than happy to break it all down, if you want me to.

Ahem!!!

Sorry, but I'm currently listening to some files from YTube via optical out from the LG TV here - Plus, I watched that 'Lucy' film today (the soundtrack was pretty amazing with so much layering of the bass spectrum... this only through 27watts of Seca amplifikay-shun).
You will seriously be pushed to hear a better depth of imaging from two channel source !

Oh, well. My best guess.

I'm glad your TV is working out for you.

It could be pure fluke, who Knows 🤷🏻

Smiffy

Btw @uglymusic - hope you get better soon 🙏
Col just mentioned you were out of sorts there - I've not long gotten over some Viral lurgy infection 🙁

uglymusic

Smiffy said:

Btw @uglymusic - hope you get better soon 🙏
Col just mentioned you were out of sorts there - I've not long gotten over some Viral lurgy infection 🙁

Thank you! I think I may survive, just

AntiCrap

I made a outdoor one has you saw , I can't hear the neighbours complain . Make one like mine, ok you need a fur coat. But music comes first and sod the frostbite  . 

uglymusic

AntiCrap said:

I made a outdoor one has you saw , I can't hear the neighbours complain . Make one like mine, ok you need a fur coat. But music comes first and sod the frostbite  . 

Frostbite? I can't have my ears falling off

Smiffy

Lol

Smiffy

justshoemark said:

Well it turned up the other today. So plugged it in. 
Am happy with it for streaming seems detailed and lively. Definitely depends how good the recording is. 
So I plugged a cd player in to see how it compares to my old Kenwood 1100sg which was there top model back in the day. And the Kenwood is alot better. There's alot more depth to the music. I haven't tried it against my other cd player Sony x77es but I will do soon. Have just got my claymore back from Colin and having first listen.  

Hi,

Great that you've had the Claymore back from his Lordship 'the most magnificent  Wonfor of All things Seca' 😉👌
How are you getting on with it now?

I would like to point out that the differences you're hearing between the Kenwood and the streaming Dac aren't necessarily down to the digital source.
The Main effectors that basically 'choke' the final analog signal are the passive/active components and cct layout design between the Dac chip and power amp stage 🤓
I've proven this many times now over the years, and this experience has culminated with the introduction of some of Colin's designs 👌

Smiffy

I can remember some years ago, an audio associate came to my place and had a listen to the system.
I was playing one particular track when they asked what it was as it sounded so good - I replied "oh, that's a 128bit mp3 file I downloaded, and burned to this cd compilation I made". They looked quite shocked when I told them this.
At the time, for me the minimum accepted resolution would be 160bit, but the preference was for 320bit.

But that 128bit file just showed that it wasn't really all about the bitrate !

uglymusic

FWIW, I haven't had a CD player in decades. It would be interesting to compare one with my streaming set-up, although I don't want to go back to handling physical media and find space for them in my living space.

Smiffy

Did you get rid of all your red book media ?

uglymusic

No. They are in boxes around the house.

I was meaning shelves full of media cluttering up the place, and occasionally not being able to find something.

Smiffy

Ah Okay.

Smiffy

uglymusic said:

FWIW, I haven't had a CD player in decades. It would be interesting to compare one with my streaming set-up, although I don't want to go back to handling physical media and find space for them in my living space.

The fair way to compare red book fed data & website fed data is to squirt the Spdif digital out of the cd player into where your streaming signal goes (if possible).

uglymusic

Yes. Before I went streaming, I had an Arcam transport and a succession of DACs.

Smiffy

👍