A good biggun will always beat a good littlun. Discuss

uglymusic

My speakers are good littluns. I believe, on balance, the RR3s are the best small speakers I've heard.

But I hanker after good bigguns, a situation made worse after hearing a pair of homebrew horn-ish enclosures with a couple of bass-mid drivers and a ribbon tweeter. They really did put the weight of musicians and their instruments in the room, and despite problems at both the top and bottom end, gave an experience that the RR3s fail to deliver, for all their greater accuracy and my system's ability to present detail at a level my friend's system wasn't.

I don't have the space at the moment for bigguns, but hopefully will have sometime in the future. Am I right to lust after bigguns?

spacey

What about something in the middle, You can then keep that image/speed quality only L'ill one can do but add more weight and presence that the phat one brings. 

large stand mounts are the biz IMHO. I've been on a speaker quest for about 25 years and have found 9" LF 3 ways speaker active or passive to have the bollox.

Alan

No Compromise!



I wonder pensively if I can realistically better my speakers for real-world money. I - like Dave - don't want to gain scale but lose world class detail, imaging, pace etc...

I'd like to have the funds to embark on such a journey. There are so many interesting speaker designs I'd like to try.

uglymusic

I'm unlikely to move away from the Royds unless I get a radically different room.

I suspect I'll be continuing to accumulate lots more ugly music instead ;-)

Alan

I've found just the thing! Just park it outside & all your room issues will be gone!



You do like horns?

You could shove some ice-cream in it for the summer months...

uglymusic

You obviously understand how much of an ice-cream fiend Ol' UM is  :-D

bhobba

IMHO good biguns will not always beat good littleuns.  My old ML1's are rated by the manufacturer as flat to 50hz but in reality are flat to 40hz - the manufacturer didn't advertise that because no one would believe him.  Many people find it produces better quality bass than small floor-standers.  One guy even reported when people came over they were always looking for the hidden sub-woofer. 

Thanks

Bill 

Alan

The same thing happens quite regularly over too Bill - @Gromit has a little pair of Royd Merlins that he has shown at a couple of amateur HiFi shows, they are often rated as amongst the best of the show, and the same "where is the sub?" comments are regularly heard. The Merlins are rarer Royds, but older too. The later ones are every bit as good - at least.

I think your point reveals the crossover area too - you refer to "small floorstanders" as a benchmark to beat - I think there are probably more examples of great stand mounts than small floorstanders. I'd take a great standmount on open stands any day.

In terms of a good bigun - the current craze in the UK is for 12" and 15" dual concentric Tannoys - often rebuilt & upgraded. A standmount has little hope of moving anything like that much air in a room! Or even large horns, such as the Cessaro ones @coops sells, which will likely decimate the Tannoys for scale.

The larger the box, the harder it is to not lose detail IME. This is largely down to cabinets coloring the sound, but I would suppose the more complex crossover arrangements for multi-way speakers eat up detail a well. That is probably over simplifying it, but going on what is on the market (both new & second hand) it seems it is harder to make good biguns than good littleuns.

There are some interesting hybrids around, such as @quickie Audio Physics Virgo II's, which are a small monitor with a large side firing bass driver at the bottom of a slim cabinet (placed to couple with the floor, like the Allison designs) which might give the best of both worlds - I can't see them delivering massive scale either though TBH, however good they are.

Roy Allison made some beautiful speakers by all accounts, and I would love to try some Allison ones some day. The other hybrid type design (by which I mean capable of full range, massive dynamics and scale) that I wan badly to try is the impulse H2.

Finally - on your specs point - I don't see the point in such specs as each room is different and most speaker makers measure different things....my Royds go down to 20hz according to the paperwork (but I can't remember if there are any charts). Who would believe that? - and I can't be bothered to test it out. All that matters is how they sound.

uglymusic

Yes. I've had 'where is the sub' comments from audiophiles, non-audiophile friends and the man who came to assemble the bookcases.

I'm with you on specs, too, @Alan.

Colin W

Or go for a Clearly Better Sound

farm4.static.flickr.com/3409/5804197783_917f8f9237_m.jpg

OK I did what you said Alan and no pic whoops, must have done something wrong.

Alan

It was just missing http:// at the beginning of the link. That's a classy ear trumpet!
:-D

uglymusic

Dammit. I can't remember the name of the manufacturer. I was looking at their site a while back.

Edit: Here we go.

quickie

I think the AP's are a good compromise.

True you are never going to get the scale of a good speaker with 12 or 15" bass drivers,but then I think in the case of the Virgo's 3's they have pulled off the mini monitor mated to some bigger bass drivers very well indeed.

I don't think I would ever go back to a monitor on stands.

Paul.

Colin W

Hi Paul,

I had Tannoy Buckingham's, driven by Magnum A100 and those babies can really move, and with Pink Floyd's the Wall the helicopter shock the house and you rib cage. (102dB/W ,A100 = 400W mono)

I would if had space like you go for Westminster's the other half and the neighbours would prefer them, could claim earthquake damage as a added bonus

I have used the Dynaudio 10inch units and they perform very well indeed I think Ruark used them too, about to try Scanspeak as Dynaudio no longer sell drivers.

Oh help please anybody I need drivers for IsoBarbaric  any ideas??

Col

quickie

Hi Col,

Yes,the big Tannoys are very nice..........can you imagine a pair in my room....? lol.

I remember the Broadswords and some of the bigger Ruarks (crusaders ?) used the Dynaudio Drivers.........I think the original Sabres you have are SEAS ?

Which drivers do you need for Briks ?

Paul.

 

coops

Ferguson Hill.
Keith.

deeslexia

I have RCL Small Loudspeakers , compared to LS35a's back in the 80s .

Made by SEAS to showcase their drivers , they are a kind of original Screaming Linn Kan meets LS35a .

Only my Magnaplanar SMGa would tear me away from them but they died .

In the past , I have tried many expensive £1500 + speakers to ' better ' them and have left many dealers amazed .

It was not just me - no one could recommend another speaker at sensible prices and many just wanted to buy them . 

They do demand 1st class ancillaries and have to be driven - no late night quietness !

Hopefully I have just bought some bigger speakers which could put them in the shade - Made In Norway ,

 identical construction and drivers , 430mm high instead of 330 mm . 1980s 

£27 incl on e-bay .

Someone buying these for a cheap budget set up would be hugely disappointed 'cos they won't play until pushed hard , with a good source .

For me it's if it ain't broke .... get more !

dee

Unfortunately my Linn Classik Movie isn't up to it so I will have to have my Paravincini Heybrook P2 sorted properly .  

Brain_Dead

I also drove Wharfdale Diamonds with a Inca Tech MSB for a dealer friend in London, at 1KW/channel it gave the poor little beasties a good push, he sold lots. The amp then went on to drive SL600 and melted the voice coils, nice smoke.

So I think if you have well combine system excluding the laws of physic anything can sound OK. But for real bass Alan's units look good. (No Compromise! )

Best Col

deeslexia

Recently , I confirmed that I have always had a hearing glitch - high frequency loss which also equates to accentuated bass to an extend that even guys' voices sound subjectively LOUD .

It would have been good to have had that seen to at 5 years , but it seems that if I could respond face to face , then I must be able to ' hear ' OK . - 1952 .

This has influenced an extremely bass light system with , equally importantly , undistorted / enhanced bass , as for extended treble - bring it on !

Of course ,I avoid heavy stuff anyway !

dee

I guess that this is why the Pink Triangle / Grace and RCLs are just a perfect match .  

deeslexia

If I had the money and space , it would still be Magnaplanars it seems that they have a baby Maggies for $550 which they sell on full return for a trade up - I would love to get hold of some of those for chamber and solo vocal !