Focal / Naim

Docfoster

Hardly breaking news I know...
But I thought that the Focal take over of / purchase of / merger with Naim should probably have a thread here.
What predictions for the effects on the Naim business and products, or those of Focal? Does this new business say anything about the situations in which Focal and Naim found themselves, or anything general about the current state of the hifi industry...?
Thoughts...?

mattlynch

hi doc,
going on past efforts with other companies that have merged it usually leads to a dilution of the original aims/goals of the individual companies  , as far as i can see the hi fi industry is over committed and is having trouble shifting product , i do feel the industry has reached a plateau in performance per pound spent, this became very evident to me over the past few years during which i have been looking for a new amp and speakers ,i have home auditioned a lot of equipment around the £1000 mark for each component and have ended up with my old kef q7's and an inca tech claymore amp and nothing i tried even comes close, second hand the amp and speakers can be had for around £300 all in , add some (brilliant)Tellurium q cables and i have a huge ,entertaining and fun system that keeps me listening for hours and more importantly buying new music, i simply wont buy any other products for the time being , as no company can offer a real improvement that can justify the outlay, although i will be having a good listen to the new amps from Tellurium q when they are available,
 to me at least ,mergers in the hi fi industry usually spells trouble , just look at what the rank organization did to some of the great names in hi fi's past , H.J Leak being a prime example ,  
the music buying public dont want the hassle of spending decades building a system so the focal naim merger may prove productive in giving those folks a fantastic system that they can go and buy ,plug in (or even wirelessly connect) to a home computer and get a really really good sound quality with a minimum of fuss and i wish them all the best and truly hope they can move the game on a bit ,
the biggest barrier for any hi fi company is the recording and production industry, what's the point of High Fidelity systems that are just reproducing poorly produced music, yes there are some very nicely captured and produced titles out there but for the masses to be captivated by the virtues of hi fi then the music they like must be recorded and produced  well enough for the hi fi to be worth it , at this moment in time that simply isnt the case as far as i can see so hi fi for the foreseeable future will remain the remit of those who are determined enough to seek out the recorded material that makes that hi worth investing in ,
but thats all just my opinion and one thats from a guy who still beieves that dragging a small chip of hard mineral through a groove in a bit of plastic is still the best way to listen ,
all the best,
matt
;-)

Brain_Dead

The problem with the whole industry in my opinion is greed, to make a good margins the manufacture in the UK is stuffed, to reduce cost more and more company are going to the Far East for cheaper component and labour costs, just to make them more profit, with distributor and the retail profit margins, the profit the manufacture makes for the idea design and effort is very tiny. So we get poorer designed product with a shorten life span and poorer reproduction of the music, which is why I got involved in the late 1970,s for in the first place.

Building product in the UK and home Euro countries is not impossible but greed from non productive elements of the business kills there sales due rising costs.

It is a shame we here in the UK made some of the best audio and Hi-fi equipment in the world now it has almost all gone. I for one is not going to give up we can and should make or own equipment and find ways to reduce the marketing cost by joining together i.e. Naim and Focal.

Inca Tech and  Ruark were working on the scheme in the late 1980,s but you do need to trust all parties and there choice of overseas distribution so may be Naim and Focal have managed to solve all the problems with this so good luck to them, and will it be like another Linn and Naim army destroying all new comers in there wake.

Col

mattlynch

nice post Col, very true indeed , are there any manufacturing companies in the uk that are tooled up and able to produce equipment on a large scale at a competitive cost or has it all gone ? i get the feeling that it was all sold down the river by previous governments and it seems to me that there is no investment forthcoming to lift the game ,
you ,it would seem ,are one of the last few uk based designers that is still willing to put your money where your mouth is and i think we all applaud your efforts and some of us are still sitting enjoying the fruits of your labours, my old Claymore utterly thrashed a cambridge audio 840A which to my ear was a huge step backwards in sound quality and was given far too many good reviews ,
regardless of where a product is made it must be good at communicating the musical message which naim was always quite good at, i just hope they dont lose that in this new merger, i am not sure of the details of the merger ,hopefully they are still fully independent companies working together rather than one being dominant over the other , perhaps we will see an amp  and speaker package that are tuned to work together ,, either way its not of much concern to me as i am waiting for a certain little 10watt amp to hit the market which i believe is designed and built in the uk ,
i hope we dont see another naim linn type situation as i feel that was more damaging to the industry than it was helpful , dealers at the time seemed to push customers towards those brands even though there was better available , the new merger may reduce costs to both parties but i highly doubt we will see those saving being passed on to those that buy their products.
as you said best of luck to them and i do hope it moves the game on a notch ,
all the best,
matt    

Brain_Dead

The Baby is great, just tried the pre/HP amp with it it as MC and MM, the new inter, PCB are here to with the analog remote. I tried the new mains cable, not available until approval arrive, the bass was lifted to a solid wall.

Amazing sound played Capercaillie 4 times today it like a new record, the N.A.F. (Naim And Focal) thing is going great guns on the now N.A.F.F. (forum)

Brain_Dead

N.A.F. Naim Are Frecked so focus on Focal,they will buy more companies maybe even Storm Audio.

trioleo

Many years ago I had a Naim 42/110 combo and I liked it very much, then I went up to a 32 and matching power amp(can't remember the numbers) but I rapidly got passed being initially impressed and started to feel fatigued, so I got rid of it.

Since then I have heard several Naim amps and CD players and again initially dynamic and impressive but that soon turned to despondency.

I wonder whether the writing was on the wall for Naim and Focal saved them, but I'm not so sure this will work, it may be a nail in Focal's coffin, I hope not I like a lot of Focal speakers. Maybe between them they can come up with some interesting new products, for the HiFi industry I hope they are successful, it will be interesting to follow this one. Will Naim continue making speakers?

On a different note it's nice to know Albarry Music amplifiers are hand built in Britain and in my view one of the best on the market.  regards Al

mattlynch

hi Al, yeah i know what you mean about naim and fatigue, but their gear still got that musical message across way better than most,
still didnt manage to be dynamic and subtle and as inviting as the old inca tech i have but they are head and shoulders above most 'if you enjoy the Naim experience ' , kind of like a full on curry, for some its a no no but for some its everything they wanted!
for me ,i will stick with Colins way, for me its the 'right way' , maybe we have similar ears , i cranked the re-capped Claymore the other day and it blew me away, i could have been listening to a live performance in my front room!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks Col, 

Brain_Dead

I liked the Naim stuff but always found the bass a one note horse, it had no texture for me, but saying that I did enjoy doing odd bits and bobs for them.

It a shame Garry moved on he was a good lad, he never writes though, hint hint.

Docfoster

I have an inca tech amp. I use it in my second system (powering some jpw's). Lovely noises!
I agree with comments on the naim sound. To me it's a bit like sky sports coverage of rugby union - initially impressive with all the bang crash wallop fizz,, but ultimately lacking bill mclarenesque integrity.
I read the thoughts on the naim/focal merger with interest. Thanks. I know too little of economics generally or the Hifi business specifically to add anything...

Brain_Dead

Good news I have started a new design based on the Claymore, PCB done parts ordered now for the chassis, I am hoping it will sell for a good price so most people could afford it, and not whoooo prices. It is hard to do that these days with rising costs, I want to build it in the UK.

Docfoster

Nice one Col'.
Do you want to start a new thread to keep us updated....?
A developing product definitely deserves one! :-)

Brain_Dead

I keep forgetting to do that sorry Brain Dead is the right name for me he he )

mattlynch

lol, not exactly Colin!! more like Brain Over Used,, please do start the new thread for all the lovely gear you seem to be pulling out of that brain,
all the best,
matt