AudioLab
When I first considered computer audio, my 'DAC ambition' was the then forthcoming John Westlake design, which ended up being manufactured by Audiolab. Well, the mythical beast has arrived and sounds, by all accounts, pretty spot on. Has anyone had a decent play with one?
Don't jump to the conclusion that I want to change my M2Tech, I love it - and with its stupendous sample rate its pretty future-proof. So whats the Audiolab got then?
It runs the ESS Sabre chip, reckoned to be virtually as good as it gets when implemented really well, and it is designed by John Westlake - reckoned to be about as good a DAC designer as there is (and going by the way he interacts with customers and all interested parties on PFM - about a decent a chap as there is in the industry).
I was only put off by the long wait until it came to market, and the issue of USB not being guaranteed at 192 kHz. It now seems the combined DAC/CD unit (8200CDQ) is being updated with a snazzy big display screen and 192 over USB (it seems the MDAC is only going to be guaranteed up to 96kHz over USB but it does 192 over optical & S/PDIF).
Why care? Several reasons apparently.
*The CD & CDQ has a clock-locked CD transport, apparently CDs sound almost indistuinguishable from HDD rips.
*SOtA power supply, later upgradeable.
*Digital pre-amp as well as analogue pre if you like gramophones.
Now the digital pre function seems to be a logical extension of where LDR pre's take us, removing as much as we can from the signal path. Remember the mantra: "The only thing better that the best component is no component at all". So not having a pre, not having the extra set of interconnects, not having four RCA terminations in the chain should be a good thing.
I have heard that as a DAC the Audiolab is excellent for its cost. So what, says I? So is my DAC. But when the digital pre is used the whole thing jumps to a new level, if you believe the hype. Maybe I am starting to a little, I certainly am curious.
In my system I could run the HiFi through it and the TV digibox through it, controlling the volume with it and losing the pre altogether. I would have the capability to play CDs again (not really important), and John promises to support and upgrade Audiolab units even after he leaves the company. This is good because according to John, these DACs are the DACs he always wanted to make and he has ideas to tweak them further in the future. Its his baby. I like that he is an audiophile first, one of us if you will.
The consensus seems to be that a new standard has been set. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on that?
Don't jump to the conclusion that I want to change my M2Tech, I love it - and with its stupendous sample rate its pretty future-proof. So whats the Audiolab got then?
It runs the ESS Sabre chip, reckoned to be virtually as good as it gets when implemented really well, and it is designed by John Westlake - reckoned to be about as good a DAC designer as there is (and going by the way he interacts with customers and all interested parties on PFM - about a decent a chap as there is in the industry).
I was only put off by the long wait until it came to market, and the issue of USB not being guaranteed at 192 kHz. It now seems the combined DAC/CD unit (8200CDQ) is being updated with a snazzy big display screen and 192 over USB (it seems the MDAC is only going to be guaranteed up to 96kHz over USB but it does 192 over optical & S/PDIF).
Why care? Several reasons apparently.
*The CD & CDQ has a clock-locked CD transport, apparently CDs sound almost indistuinguishable from HDD rips.
*SOtA power supply, later upgradeable.
*Digital pre-amp as well as analogue pre if you like gramophones.
Now the digital pre function seems to be a logical extension of where LDR pre's take us, removing as much as we can from the signal path. Remember the mantra: "The only thing better that the best component is no component at all". So not having a pre, not having the extra set of interconnects, not having four RCA terminations in the chain should be a good thing.
I have heard that as a DAC the Audiolab is excellent for its cost. So what, says I? So is my DAC. But when the digital pre is used the whole thing jumps to a new level, if you believe the hype. Maybe I am starting to a little, I certainly am curious.
In my system I could run the HiFi through it and the TV digibox through it, controlling the volume with it and losing the pre altogether. I would have the capability to play CDs again (not really important), and John promises to support and upgrade Audiolab units even after he leaves the company. This is good because according to John, these DACs are the DACs he always wanted to make and he has ideas to tweak them further in the future. Its his baby. I like that he is an audiophile first, one of us if you will.
The consensus seems to be that a new standard has been set. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on that?
Comments
as someone who is looking at building a new system ,i too am looking at the audiolab among others , it sure does have all the prerequisites to make the ideal control hub for a nice little system (perhaps paired with some of Colin's new amp's )and i have always had a place in my system for audiolab gear, i do hope all the plaudits are right but will have to let my ears be the guide when i go shopping,
there seems to be a constant and fast flowing stream of goodies hitting the market at the moment, so much so i dont think i will be buying anything soon as every time i get to listen to a new device it seems like its already been superseded by the time i get home from the shop demo ,
the way things are progressing in the digital arena that stupendously high bit rate on the M2tech may become the norm sooner than we might think, i wouldnt like to find myself sitting with the audiolab in a years time wondering if i could be getting more from the M2tech at the higher bit rate,
this has me suspicious of any new bench mark , if audiolab were saying that a future hardware or software upgrade would allow the higher bit rate and give that same future proofing as the young dac (and i suspect a few others will be following suit soon) then the audiolab would seem to offer exceptional value and stand a better chance of holding its crown ,
saying all that does of course suppose that those high bit rate files actually reach the DAC , from a recent run of articles in hi fi news it would seem that those 'hi-rez' files are not always what they appear to be ,
when the music producing industry finds a way of consistently supplying real hi-rez files the M2tech and others who follow suit ,will become the ones worth having but, at this moment the audiolab would seem to be perfect but will it soon be a product of the past? after all i have vinyl for that!
when i had the 8000a running ,one of my friends just didnt like it , not sure if the newer stuff has this same tonal presentation though,,
these are 'to me at least', dizzying times in the world of 'hi-fi' , is this current state of affairs close to how things were back when the industry was trying to settle on an industry standard for an EQ curve for vinyl reply and if stereo was just a flash in the pan or a genuine improvement worth having?
the digital audio world is in such a state of flux that any purchase must be put to much scrutiny and consideration , hence i will be taking my time
or should i join the club and do the NVA ,young dac and a good case of the Royds.
:-D
The M2Tech does set a high benchmark in terms of spec, but to be honest most of my librari is ripped CDs, and I think that will always be the case. The mastering is so important that it trounces any apparent benefit of high bit and sample rates.
I bought the M2Tech partly because I wasn't going to wait any longer for the Audiolab, and then because it sounds so very good with ripped CDs. I wouldn't really take the technical specs into account when building a new system.
Dave, I don't doubt your experience with previous Audiolab gear (and you shouldn't doubt mine - none!), but there is no DNA at all between their previous work and what John W has done for them. I am afraid I don't share ant prejudices against the company, any more that I am loyal to gear I currently like. The only arbiter is how it sounds AFIAC.
Somewhere in the PFM thread there is the explanation of the stunted bit-rate over USB, and it has to do with the receiver chip from ESS IIRC. The problem can be circumvented but will take a considerable amout of software re-writing, so it is on a future wish-list of upgrades that might be carried out outside Audiolab.
However, if I were flush I'd definately demo the CDQ or MDAC as it could serve as a digital 'hub' and I could lose the pre altogether. The thing that makes this a viable option is the alledgedly excellent SQ with the digital pre, and the fact that I continue to listen mostly to redbook.
The Young gets kudos for doing normal DAC stuff so very well, doing some pretty unique stuff, doing all that for so little money and doing it first (and being Italian & looking cool - is that shallow?). It seems the (Westlake) Audiolab gear does similar but will do so cheaper and to a larger market. If the quality really is up there, that wide exposure at that price and with that ability is what will make it a benchmark design imo.
MDAC on the street for £499.
The CDQ is £950 I think.
The MDAC is a bargain if it's as good as initial reports suggest.
The Mdac (standalone DAC/PRE) is either £500 or
£600 IIRC, and the 8200 CDQ is now £950 (which is a bit of a jump since I last looked - I was expecting them about the £800 mark). The 8200 CD is still £700, which is an MDAC with clock locked transport - I believe the MDAC has better power supply.
I believe the only difference between the CD & the CDQ is the updated power supply (which I think can be uprated) and the CDQs analogue pre amp.
the MDAC has digital pre built in.
You might also be right of course. Or it might just show a lot of gear up. Maybe.
Its progress, isn't it? Raising standards at lower prices - mainstream consumerism, meet the HiFi industry.
:-?
its just that i have heard the stiletto 6 speakers a few times and they are bewitching ,they would qualify as the last speaker i would buy!, and if Colin can pull off the claymore magic again with the new amps then a new system will be on the cards,
what i do need is a new DAC ,hence me chirping in on this conversation , i cant remember the DAC market being this hot for a long time and its got my head in a spin ,
i sold my dacmagic with the intention of going out and listening to what was in the shop and making a purchase but then ,musical fidelity, Rega and Arcam released the new dacs and a mate got a CEntrance for his mini mac and that little box can really sing , reminds me of a good vinyl set up with a bright balance, and now i read very favourable comments on the Teddy Pardo Teddy DAC , add the new Audiolab DAC is on its way ,plus the M2tech and i am wondering if i can find time to properly evaluate any of them , no wonder a lot of folks make snap buys ,
im off to have a cup of tea and spin a record or two.
@-)
Me too - at £499 they are worth a serious punt and almost half the price of a Young. Like the Young if you stick on a decent power supply which I am sure Simon is already working on I think you will have a seriously good dac and pre.
Worth having a gander at the PFM post where John Westlake commendably answers all-comers. Mind you reading between the lines it could also be his last Audiolab product so buy while stocks last ! Pretty sure his next product won't be £499 !
The MDAC is just more usable in digital pre mode AFAIC, it allowes me to chop out the pre (and sell it), sell the Young too and won't cost me. The only thing I 'lose' is the ability to play over 192kHz, and I think I can live with that.
I told you - no loyalty here!
The Eva, it's fancy power supply....
The spare NVA P90 pre...
A set of I/Cs...
....and buy an MDAC. And have a system that sounds better? It would cost me....let me think about that some more... That's the plan in my head anyway.
I will have to think very, very carefully about this. The Young DAC is truly special (I am privileged to own the best front end I've heard) and I don't want to mess this up - I like the LDR pre's as well and I am dying to hear Col's version.
I think I might email JW and reserve an MDAC. I don't mind paying for it in full provided I can return it to the local dealer after a week should things not work out.
I ain't selling the Young until I know the Audiolab is as good though!
I need to sleep on this over the weekend.
Alan you can reserve a MDAC direct from any dealer. I did yesterday with Barletts ( London N1 not your neck of woods unfortunately) and I was second on their list ( where is the mad rush ?).
Why not keep the Young power supply and get Simon to tweak it for you down to 15v ? The MDAC has a funny 9 pin mini din plug which may be hard to match up though.
Jason interested in the MDAC - it must be good !!
Those threads are just too long now - I thought I had done a reasonable job keeping up with them but I seem to be out of touch now. Still, it looks like it possibly meets all my needs.
Can anyone say how he attenuates his volume without sacrificing dynamics and resolution like most 'puters?
That's not to say anything about the performance for the price, but it is a shabby way to deal with people, especially given the large pre-order list following John's participation on the PFM thread and the recent published review which had the price at £499.
They will lose way more than they gain through this, if it proves to be so.
The info is from Bartletts HiFi in London, which were told the new 'R'RP by IAG this week. I probably won't affect my plans, but it makes then less attainable for now.
Even at £600 it seems a relative steal for the performance that is apparently on offer. Audirvana Plus with digital volume control by the MDAC promises to be a great combo.
Give it six months and an even better sounding DAC with more features will be on the market for the same cost or less, and the Young & MDAC will simply be mid-pack also-runs.
That said, they will sound as good as they do today - just similar performance with extra functionality will be more commonly available for less. (Which won't matter once the world goes bankrupt...)
The type of high street dealers that sell Audiolab don't generally do proper demos - the two I spoke to said I had to buy the thing outright, and return for a full refund if it didn't work out.
Dave - have you tried you system 'pre-less' yet?
But I find the improvement profound, which is why I am eager to try and make my rig work without a pre.