Another (Cheaper) DAC

edited October 2011 in Digital
This is probably going to be a truly excellent 'budget' DAC - budget in terms of cost but likely not in performance. It has at it's core the Asus Xonar card that is also found in the reputedly excellent NVA TFS, made by occasional poster & resident genius Jason (Figlet 108). Both Mervyn & Ben are big fans of his work, and others who have heard it have nothing but praise for it.

It will be priced above £300 which puts it against the newly revised DACMagic plus, but the Asus has a tiger on the top. The Cambridge Audio does not.

image

The internals look, well, electronic to me, but it does feature a proper internal transformer. It looks like a serious piece of kit for not a lot of money, and depending on who they got to design the output section, it might just sound something like it's carefully implemented cousins.

 http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_Essence_One/

Comments

  • Electronic looking insides...? A tiger on top...? A "proper" transformer?
    Have you been attending night classes Al...?
    ;-)

    Seriously, it sounds interesting and seems well priced. If the Xonar card has much to do with the TFS' sound I look forward to reading report.
    Are you lining up a purchase...?
  • edited October 2011
    It must be good, it has a Tiger. On top.

    I don't think I want one, there are two criteria I have for replacing the Young (if at all).
    • It has to be at least as good, which I believe is a tall order. The Asus may be so, but I do not know.
    • It needs a proper dithered volume in the software, and a remote - which the Asus doesn't.
    But it does have a tiger. On top.
  • Oh, stop dithering Mr B!  :-D
  • But - the tiger!...
  • Any DAC with a big cat on the top is fine by me.
  • It's gold.
    /:-)
  • No "proper dithered volume in the software"...?
    But the tiger...?!
  • If the MDAC came with a tiger this would be a no brainer choice, but tiger or dithered volume control- well both of those are must have features... I think I can draw the tiger, I'm not sure my illustrated volume control would be as good. what do you think.
  • Well, if even an experienced DIY'er would struggle with a tiger then that changes things a lot. I can already dither, adequately, so perhaps my priorities need to change here. I am just waiting for a DAC to feature a Capybara or a Tapir, and I'm sold.


  • Tapir?! Surely a meerkat would be preferable? Dithered volume....meerkat logo....balanced outs = me sold.
  • Personally I think invertebrate insignia are undervalued in today's hifi industry.
    When was the last time you saw a nematode on a hifi fascia? And they wonder why the industry is in trouble... Sheesh.
    If Naim had started engraving woodlice, whelks or even earth worms on their products they would not have have found themselves in the position of having to jump into bed with the French.
  • Surely the French would have found them even more appetising?
  • edited November 2012
    I would like to draw attention, once again, to the tiger. On top. (It's gold)

    Chris Connaker has just reviewed the tiger on Computer Audiophile.

    Nice to see it do rather well at it's price point.
  • I saw another review of it somewhere recently.

    It would be more useful if I could remember where... Maybe I'll Google it...
  • Tigger`s bounce will the music or just skip along.
  • edited November 2012
    There has been an interesting response to this DAC, and the review thereof. It seems that opinion is quite divided over the best way to assess and review it's abilities.

    There is also a link to a CA discussion of the asus DAC, in which there is also division. This is a strange one, because users of the asus soundcard rate it highly. When the manufacturers themselves bring out a flagship implementation of their device, one might expect more. Consider, for example, the feted Resonessence labs Invicta DAC at £3.5k, and the reception it has had (these are the guys behind the ESS Sabre DAC chips).

    Perhaps this can be added to the argument that HiFi equipment is not simply about 'competent implementation / design', but that critical listening and a love for music must figure strongly in the design process?
  • Hi Alan,

    I have one of these DACs to use with my hifi/HT-PC system.

    Before it, I ran a very old AVI S2000 DAC from the early 90's. It sounds good, and had two very desirable traits that got me a nice price on the resale value:

    1. Highly regarded TDA1541A S2 DAC
    2. Fully discrete output stage

    Since it was so old, I decided I'd have a change... I'd already used (And still do) Asus soundcards and really rate them. So, when they announced a standalone version I snapped one up as soon as funds permitted :)

    The sound via toslink was a bit disappointing - thin and weak sounding. But, once I hooked it up via the a-synch USB connection and got ASIO running via foobar things improvement. It was a little lean compared to the old AVI DAC, but presented more detail and clarity. A compromise in some ways, an improvement in others... I've had it for a few months now and don't regret it.

    Now, here's the thing that none of the big hifi reviews (CA, WHF etc..) have bothered to make a big deal out of: All the op-amps inside the DAC (I/V stage, LPF and output stage) are adaptor mounted and swappable. I did a bit of research, sent a few quid to a gent in NY via eBay for some LME9720HAs and waited.

    A week or so later, they arrived and it took no more than half an hour all in all to swap the humble (rather crap) opamps that came as stock with these ones. Immediately, the DAC sounded much better! More bass, a stronger mid-range presence and less of the "eager" treble I'd become accustomed too. It's by no means the best DAC out there, but with a quick and cheap upgrade punches well above it's weight.

    Funnily enough, a friend of mine brought over his (battery powered) Young DAC recently to compare. A/Bing on a few familiar tracks the Young was easily identifiable by it's very revealing character. It certainly tops the E1 for outright resolution and detail, but apart from that there was not a whole in it... Considering the Asus can be bought for 1/3rd of the Young's current UK price, it's an excellent deal. The inbuilt transformer is a nice addition too as is the headphone amp.
  • 'Lo Daws0n,

    That's a cracking result you've had there! A satisfying upgrade as well, I would imagine.

    Tell me, just how important has the tiger - the gold tiger (on top) - come to be in your system? For sure, if I had anything remotely so glorious as that on top of my DAC I would be set for life. As it is, I have a small model boat on my DAC, it's good. But it's no tiger.

    FWIW, I agree with you about the identifiable character of the Young DAC, I have come to see it as a desirable quality rather than a lack of transparency though. It ha a 'live' presentation, sort of front row rather than further back in the concert venue. It adds a sense of fun, Vivace!

    The Asus is obviously very good value indeed, but Youngs are now available second hand for little money (around £500 if you're lucky). If I were buying new, I think I'd be looking toward the MDAC,or if I was wanting to go left-field, the new Resonessence labs Concero for £600.
  • Man, a Young DAC for £500 is a steal! I know they were quite cheap on launch, but they seem to be four figures @ rrp now. I wasn't completely bowled over by it, but it has a very even handed analytical presentation. In contrast the Asus was a bit warmer and mid-range focused... I might play around with some different op-amps again to see if I can tweak the sound a little more. My only issue with it is the volume control... I don't need the pot and it's a shame you can't bypass it altogether and output line out level.

    That ESS Sabre based Concero is just the kind of thing I'm looking for, were I to replace the E1... I only require a USB input so that sort of minimalism would be no problem. Shame about the price though considering it's footprint/feature set - ouch!

    P.S Oh yeah, that tiger is truly is the icing on the cake. Especially when I'm eating frosties and blasting out this at breakfast:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=btPJPFnesV4

    :D

  • 500 Alan now thay is cheap. Got mine forsale on the wam at the moment I want to try something different as the young was my first foray into Dacs. Maybe a mdac or jkennys which are supposed to good.
    Chris
  • I would go for a JK in a heartbeat, but I need USB & optical.

    The MDAC is just like the Young, but Young is more exciting.
  • edited December 2012
    Hello again Chris :)

    I have heard the same thing as Alan... The Young DAC / M-DAC have a similar presentation... Would probably be quite the sidegrade swapping between the too.

    In your shoes I would probably try a JK DAC if the limited connectivity is not an issue.
  • That is top of the list to try. Jkdac32 appears to be the one plus it takes little space. Of what i've read he appears to be on to something. Must say when he shows up on pf, there are always plenty of (audio engineers) trying to rubbish his ideas.
  • I would go for a JK in a heartbeat, but I need USB & optical.

    The MDAC is just like the Young, but Young is more exciting.
    Unless your MDAC has been upgraded by John Westlake, sorry did that sound stuck up?
  • Fair point Sovereign. All the talk of forthcoming mods/upgrades and the B-DAC etc... has put me off buying a M-DAC in stock form.
  • I would go for a JK in a heartbeat, but I need USB & optical.

    The MDAC is just like the Young, but Young is more exciting.
    Unless your MDAC has been upgraded by John Westlake, sorry did that sound stuck up?
    No, I thought it sounded alright when I was there.  ;)

    TBH, the improved MDAC is very nice, but I still prefer the Young. The thing is, they are so similar that to go from one to the other is a sidestep, not an improvement. The JK32, on the other hand, is reputed to be rather special on the end of a fettled computer.
  • My thoughts aswell. See you have the Atom to try , what do you think ?
  • Much the same as Dave, actually. I put my thoughts in his thread here (Nov 16), they haven't really changed much. Having one at home has been interesting because I can compare it in the context of my system, my room, which has underscored my first thoughts.

    It is so tiny though, yet so capable. I think Col has really addressed something fundamental with it.
  • I don't know if I've just become more acclimatised to their ways, but I'm feeling they're sounding more natural as time goes by.

    Maybe we should take this discussion into the Listen/Atom thread if we want to carry on chatting about them?
  • Good idea.
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