Pooters are 'orrible - discuss

edited January 2012 in Digital
This discussion was created from comments split from: DAC Upgrade - I've folded..... Or the Weiss DAC202 thread.

Comments

  • Its going to be all about how the user interfaces with the kit, once a certain level of playback is achieved.

    which is great, as I hate puters!
  • edited January 2012
    Er, it's also about what they sound like (assuming you're not calling that some kind of auditory interface).

    The trouble with such turn-key solutions, as I've said before, is that they are like a TT that's supplied with a cartridge you can't change.
  • Er, it's also about what they sound like (assuming you're not calling that some kind of auditory interface).


    Its going to be all about how the user interfaces with the kit, once a certain level of playback is achieved.
    I thought that much was a given, that's why we're here after all. I wouldn't be faffing about if CD playback was sufficient at a real world price point.

    If we can interact with a carefully setup and configured system through an iPad, an iTouch or similar, using a simplified iTunes type interface then that's what is going to sell.

    I already control Audirvana with my iTouch, my kids are now able to be in charge of the stereo.

    Still, the remote sometimes drops it's connection, the server sometimes can't be seen, the mac sometimes needs rebooting, other bugs surface from time to time...'puters! Pah!

    My wife complains that the whole thing is too complex, and she's right. I have to switch everything on, make sure drives are mounted, make sure iTunes is happy, make sure the remote app connects to my library before I put away the mouse & keyboard & turn off the TV/monitor. The future promises to work without this preliminary hassle. That is what developments like this Weiss 301 with iPad promise to us all, eventually.


  • Yup. I agree with you about getting it all ready from booting up. Really nasty, but there are ways of automating most of that - eg mounting drives, running software etc.

    I have some of it automated, but not all. Maybe I should sort it all out on my MacBook and post a how-to - that's after the how to post screen shots and the how to make sense of the Lightspeed build, of course ;-)
  • Should I breathe out then?
    ;)
  • Tempting... oh so very tempting
    :-\"
  • A turn key solution will suit some, others will prefer to fiddle!
    KR Keith.
  • edited January 2012
    Ah! Haters gonna hate, fiddlers gonna fiddle...

    Puters are just a necessary part of the replay chain when it comes to decent digital audio IMO. Linn charge a premium for a well sorted turnkey solution, which has a massive following, but it is still a premium product in isolation with a price tag to match. Also, some don't like the sonic choices they have taken - but overall very little negative is said about the DS range. That's quite a telling point.

    Weiss getting the user interface sorted is significant, as they are a benchmark kind of company (not intended...). People listen to what they (Daniel Weiss) say. DACs are measured in comparison to the DAC 2 and the DAC 202: "My DAC is nearly as good as a Weiss 202 for a fraction of the price..." - etc. Weiss are respected, and they are good for domestic computer audio. Here's why:

    Five years ago, only a small handful of very expensive DACs did Asynchronous 192kHz over USB or Firewire - Weiss being amongst the pioneers (and certainly having some flagship products that still hold up today). But look where we're at now - everybody's catching up and cheaper DACs are genuinely challenging the Status Quo. Not because the Status Quo was bad, but precisely because it was good, and companies have been chasing the likes of Weiss hard.

    So where does Weiss go when improvements become incremental and expensive, and there is genuine mass market choice?

    Similarly, puters are not bad at digital audio - this is why we use them (they are just 'orrible...). Making the digital audio process painless, more inclusive (wife & kid friendly, ergonomic, desirable) is where apple start to take us - but we need audiophile add-ons (basically 'hacks') to get the best out of it. You know, Audirvana, hog mode, WASAPI, integer, DSD support, EQ, OS optimisation....

    If Weiss lead with getting the UI properly sorted, all other audiophile apps and hardware will follow. Sure, they will have their own take on how they do stuff - we will make our choices as we do now based on sound quality, budget and other prejudices, but at least every audio app and device will ape an 'Apple-esque' front end and their take on 'Weiss-esque' sound quality.

    At the point of use, I want to be distanced from the technology. As does my family.
  • Er, it's also about what they sound like (assuming you're not calling that some kind of auditory interface).


    Its going to be all about how the user interfaces with the kit, once a certain level of playback is achieved.
    I thought that much was a given, that's why we're here after all. I wouldn't be faffing about if CD playback was sufficient at a real world price point.

    If we can interact with a carefully setup and configured system through an iPad, an iTouch or similar, using a simplified iTunes type interface then that's what is going to sell.

    I already control Audirvana with my iTouch, my kids are now able to be in charge of the stereo.

    Still, the remote sometimes drops it's connection, the server sometimes can't be seen, the mac sometimes needs rebooting, other bugs surface from time to time...'puters! Pah!

    My wife complains that the whole thing is too complex, and she's right. I have to switch everything on, make sure drives are mounted, make sure iTunes is happy, make sure the remote app connects to my library before I put away the mouse & keyboard & turn off the TV/monitor. The future promises to work without this preliminary hassle. That is what developments like this Weiss 301 with iPad promise to us all, eventually.


    Play an LP, far far simpler innit!
  • edited January 2012
    Trudat! But...

    Would I let my Kids near an SPU or Decca gold? Or prized Vinyl?
    :-S
  • edited January 2012
    Actually Jim, there's another point which you've just highlighted.

    Decent Digital is no poor sonic relation to analogue anymore, it's deficiencies are now affordably under control. But in terms of convenience (and removing the user from the mechanical fripperies of playback so beloved of audiophiles) it has yet to shine as easier to use than an analogue setup.

    Digital/Puter audio should be rock solid reliable, child and idiot proof and ready for action instantly. Like the USS Enterprise, no less, maybe even voice activated. With Photon torpedoes.

    But still it isn't. That's what needs to change.
  • Keith. What will the UK price be for the 301?
  • Actually Jim, there's another point which you've just highlighted.

    Decent Digital is no poor sonic relation to analogue anymore, it's deficiencies are now affordably under control. But in terms of convenience (and removing the user from the mechanical fripperies of playback so beloved of audiophiles) it has yet to shine as easier to use than an analogue setup.

    Digital/Puter audio should be rock solid reliable, child and idiot proof and ready for action instantly. Like the USS Enterprise, no less, maybe even voice activated. With Photon torpedoes.

    But still it isn't. That's what needs to change.
    I still prefer using and maintaining a digital set-up than an analogue one.
  • edited January 2012
    Dave Hi the Weisscwill be about £4700, so it isn't cheap, but it will be as easy to use as a cd player, easier in fact, and you never have to attach a computer or monitor or mouse to it, which is neat,
    It won't suit everyone though, just as active speakers don't.
    KR Keith.


    Digital surpassed vinyl long ago, if you want to hear exactly what is going on ,every day consistently then you use digital.
  • £4,700 for the DACless version Keith?
  • Surely not getting on for £9K for transport and DAC?
  • Alan the Sonos system is the best I've found for ease of use. It's always on so my family just grab an iPhone and can start playing music in different room zones - amps hidden in loft or out of sight downstairs, plugged into ceiling speakers. My wife has never listened to so much music such is the convenience. The wireless is super reliable and there's no interim 'Squeeze server' or whatever it's
    called in between like with Logitech Touch.

    In terms of usability I would say Sonos by a
    mile, then the Touch, then Mac or PC. Computers will always be jack of all trades and as such, I can't ever see them reaching the reliability and convenience of a purpose built solution ala Sonos. Those of us in pursuit of ultimate sound quality will of course forego a degree of usability, if it means we can squeeze an extra drop of emotion from our favourite album.

    James
  • Surely not getting on for £9K for transport and DAC?
    I think the integrated version is cheaper than the server plus a DAC202....something like £8k.
  • Let's get back to the main discussion, shall we?

    How many of us have a dedicated PC or Mac? Or do we expect the computer to do other stuff as well?

    Step one towards an easy to use audio computer is to give it that one function, or at least set up a user account for audio use.
  • I have a MBP which is used for audio amongst other things. It has a Windows 7 partition which is dedicated to audio use.
    There's nothing on the partition other than Windows and whatever seems to be the flavour of the month (currently JPlay).
  • I guess that's the middle route.
  • About £6.5 k for the inbuilt dac version,
    Keith.
  • Let's get back to the main discussion, shall we?

    How many of us have a dedicated PC or Mac? Or do we expect the computer to do other stuff as well?

    Step one towards an easy to use audio computer is to give it that one function, or at least set up a user account for audio use.
    I have a dedicated PC (the TFS) and use it only by me (or my wife under supervision) for media.
    A cheapish Asus laptop handles day to day stuff.
  • I have quite a good vinyl front end, but have used it only 2 or 3 times in the last year since sorting out my digital replay.
    I can't say how much of that shift is laziness and how much is sound quality. I remember the last time I used the TT it was a pleasant change, so I don't know exactly why I don't use it more...
    :-/
  • My MAC is audio in the main, also DVDs for the family (but it doesn't make a very good job of that).

    The Weiss stiff is dear, but M2Tech or someone similar will have an almost comparable setup available within three years.
  • I hear you. I'm completely sick of digital audio. I recently threw away all my tablet remote, NAS, computer-based music, re-mastered all my MP3s onto wax cylinders, and now only listen to my Garrard 401. 'Pooters - who needs 'em. My album artwork has been hugely upgraded.

    Yours sincerely,
    Mark
    Item Audio | Making Computers Go Back to Spreadsheets
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