'Digital Volume Controls Are The End Of The World'

uglymusic

Can he be serious?

The figures he's worried about are tiny!

Or have I done a Ben with the rather wonderful Argentinian red I'm drinking? :-)

Brain_Dead

What a good lad see's thing has they are on digital lies.

I say bring back the wet string and candle, light candle volume down wet string volume up, cool.

Has to the Red you are drinking, just enjoy it you lucky dog, the red nectar will never be on my lips again, 

Just flavoured Adams Ale for me.

Alan

I can't agree with him, as he appears to to be completely unaware of how digi volume control works in an audiophile player like Audirvana+, or when incorporated into a 32 bit DAC.

There is a very interesting piece by a mastering engineer from Denmark on the effects of 'Loud' mastering on CD playback systems, which prompted me to run Audirvana + with -6dB all the time, with definite benefits.

When I get time time I will post the video.

uglymusic

-6dB in the master volume control in Preferences?

Jim

At the risk of putting a Spaniard in the works* I agree with Dave in that the numbers are tiny and shouldn't make that much difference.  (here comes the but)  But when using Foobar I consistently prefer it set to 0dB and use the amp to adjust level.

*thanks to a J. Lennon for that one.

uglymusic

Perhaps Foobar doesn't use the same volume algorithm as Audirvana+.

Whichever way, I can't hear any distortion/degradation using A+'s volume control. In my slightly hazy state last night, the numbers looked so insignificant as to be laughable. I couldn't believe the article's author thought they were meaningful.

Brain_Dead

In theory, I suppose you should not hear the steps but is the volume a stepped semi-conductor resistor or a modulated PWM and filter ( I understand nothing about digital lies ) if it a semi-conductor resistor network you may be able to detect the low frequency thermal noise as modulation of the require signal. If it is a PWM the narrower the pulse width the more timing error you will get due to storage times, thermal etc, so at a higher level in both cases it should sound better.

Help explain it to me.

uglymusic

For me, the core of it is this:

The value of 52,562.92708333330 is going to round to 52,563 and we’re going to lose the difference. And we’re going to lose the difference each time a sample is rounded.

Which means the error is less than 1 in 52,563, or less than 0.002%, if me maffs is correct.

That tiny figure is possibly why many people aren't hearing the supposed distortions from digital volume control.

Jim

Perhaps Foobar doesn't use the same volume algorithm as Audirvana+.

Whichever way, I can't hear any distortion/degradation using A+'s volume control. In my slightly hazy state last night, the numbers looked so insignificant as to be laughable. I couldn't believe the article's author thought they were meaningful.

Could be, I've no idea what goes on inside FB.

It's hard to describe the effect I hear but it's enough to make leave the digital set to 0dB and get off my lardy a*se and set the volume -
:-O

I've never had remote volume and I play more vinyl then digital so the getting in and out from the chair is now part of my fitness regime.

Alan

I forgot to post that video, didnt I? I can't do it now as I'm at work (well, having lunch at brooklands lake).

The interesting point made by the engineer is that with a 'hot' recording, even a 'legal' digital signal can go above 0dB under certain conditions, causing the CD player or DAC to distort. The effect is shockingly exaggerated with lossy mp3 and the like.

Usually we think of distortion and clipping being put onto the CD through bad mastering etc, but here it seems that ignorant mixing & mastering can actually induce distortion in our own home replay systems, rather than just being present on the disc.

Given that the Young DAC 'clips' digitally on rare occasions (Memphis Blood, for example) - although it used to be much worse before it was updated at the factory - I run Audirvana + with the volume knob at -6dB which cures all clipping entirely. I seem to recall this is hoe TedB used to circumvent the digital clipping with his early, pre-updated Young.

uglymusic

I've set the 'master' volume control in A+ to -6dB to no discernible advantage whatsoever, but as it's a fairly convenient setting, I'll go with the theory.

I await the video, though. Maybe it'll help me hear the benefits :-)

Docfoster

I've set the 'master' volume control in A+ to -6dB to no discernible advantage whatsoever

According to the Japanese instruction manual -4dB can carry certain disadavantages when used with large OB speakers. This diagram appears next to the relevant subheading.
 

uglymusic

Grrrrr!   )

Jim

I've set the 'master' volume control in A+ to -6dB to no discernible advantage whatsoever

According to the Japanese instruction manual -4dB can carry certain disadavantages when used with large OB speakers. This diagram appears next to the relevant subheading.
 

Now that was funny!