Glawster get together
Thought it best to start a thread for this after mentioning it elsewhere here.
I'm planning to have a get together (call it a bake-off if you wish) on Sunday 20th February. I'll provide lunch and beverages.
The theme is speakers. Jason (figlet) and his Audiovector floorstanders are confirmed. I'll have my Cube 1s. It would be great to have further pleasant company and perhaps some Royds...?
Ben
I'm planning to have a get together (call it a bake-off if you wish) on Sunday 20th February. I'll provide lunch and beverages.
The theme is speakers. Jason (figlet) and his Audiovector floorstanders are confirmed. I'll have my Cube 1s. It would be great to have further pleasant company and perhaps some Royds...?
Ben
Comments
Is he aware...?
He PMd a reply to me re. my get together, but I havn't thought to mention here to him.
Ben
I'll remind him when next I contact him.
Ben
Have a great time though, and thanks for the invitation.
Nearly set for the speaker gathering.
So far 3 confirmed:
Figlet - Audiovector Avantgarde.
Mick (not a forum user) - SD Acoustics SD1
Me - NVA Cube 1
Also one unconfirmed (Sony active hybrid speakers). I'm trying to chase that one up.
Probably room for 1 more if any of the recently joined members would like to join in on Sunday 20th February.
Ben
I can't track Treehugger down, so there's one place available for this speaker get together.
As a further attraction Jason (Figlet) is bringing a production model of his soon to be marketed NVA TFS music computer for us to chew through after the speakers.
To confirm:
Venue: Gloucester
Date: Sunday 20th Feb
Time: 11ish am - 6ish pm.
I'll provide lunch, drinks and nibbles.
Hope you have a fun day.
Jamie
Good luck with the little 'un.
Ben
Thanks to Jason and Mick for making the trip.
Thanks to all of the speakers for getting my feet tapping. :-)
In addition to we ludites, we had the benefit of the opinions of the most discerning experts, who inspected the designs throroughly...
Will write up some notes when less tired!
Ben
Be great to see some pictures.
Funny
how much time it can take, and how much fun can be had listening to 3 pairs
speakers. Mick rolled up at a little before 11am, and neither left before
8.30pm. Fantastic day! For me, the main attraction of bake-offs is the social
aspect. A meet up with the hifi peer group with which I at least, have little
face-to-face contact.
And our
measurements show clearly that the best speaker is...
As well
as having a good time, there was a shared determination to balance having fun
with making the listening as fair as was reasonably possible. Obviously blind
testing was never going to be on the cards, but we did try to make things as
fair as possible within enjoyable limits. Firstly, we used the same 9 songs (3
from each of us):
Jason
(all computer audio files playing off an NVA TFS):
Newton Faulkner ‘Into the
Light’
Michael
Buble ‘All of me’
Gwenyth
Herbert ‘Italia’
Me
(all vinyl through Decca SG, Pioneer PL-71, NVA Phono 2 (twin PSU):
The
Quiet Boys ‘Roaring fast’
Cymande
‘Anthricite’
Ella
Fitzgerald ‘All the the things you are’
Mick
(all CD through NVA TFS):
Pat Mahaney ‘Imaginary Day’
John
Martyn ‘Big Muff’ (yes, ‘Big Muff’)
Robert
Plant ‘Fortune Teller’
"Michael F***ing Buble...?!"
Sources
were into an NVA P90SA pre- and then on to an NVA TSS power amp. All NVA
cabling were used (all SSP and LS5, except the TFS which hooked up to the P90SA
via sound cords).
Also, a dB meter to ensure that the volume levels for the 3 pairs of speakers
were matched as closely as possible.
So,
after much setting up (good for team building) and some Tetley’s (both brew
types) we got underway.
I think that's 1-1 following Jason's disgraceful
images of my arse at London
bake-off show...
cont...
First
up, the SD Acoustics SD-1s.
Mick
paid £400 for his pair, and believed them to have cost £1200 when new (around
20 years ago).
We
set volume by ear, and measured it as 91.4dB just in front of our listening
sofa, about 3m away form the speakers (our ears were about 4m away from the
drivers).
On
a visit to Micks’s house a couple of months ago, I heard Mick’s speakers. I was
immediately struck by how accurately produced the timbre of high frequency
sounds such as the plucking of strings and percussive strikes (especially cymbals).
At the bake-off they reproduced sound with real zing. On one track, the way
that the SD-1’s produced a cymbal and double bass passage was amongst the
highlights of the day for me.
I
must have got a bit carried away as Jason turned to me and asked ‘so what makes
a good cymbal sound’. I had to think about that for a while I was listening,
eventually coming to the conclusion that ribbon tweeters reproduce cymbals in
much more smoothly; also the cymbal rings more musically as opposed to going
simply ‘tssss’.
I
also noticed that a Fender Rhodes sounded especially convincing during one
tune.
Bass
was generally well rounded, double basses thumping tunefully. Sounds were
generally well separated except in the most cluttered and complex passages.
The
only criticism that I levelled at the SD-1s was that I felt that the sound of
the SD-1’s lacked a bit of gravitas in the midrange, and some sounds,
especially vocals and snare drums sounded a little brittle and at times
unconvincing to my ears. On a few occasions (e.g. brass crescendos) this
characteristic, bordered on the harsh.
Jason
commented later that he felt that the SD-1s were sounded to him sometimes messy
and difficult to follow.
Nevertheless,
the SD-1s put on a highly enjoyable show. Their ribbon tweeters and bass
drivers performing especially well. For the £400 Mick paid for them, a real
steal.
Next
up to the plate, Jason’s pair of Audiovector Avantgarde
At
£5,500 (though Jason secured his pair at a knock-down price), significantly the
most expensive offerings.
These
we set to 92.5dB, which was the closest match achievable with the stepped
volume pots on the P90SA.
The
words that best described the sonic character of Jason’s Audiovector’s were
‘composed, proficient, consummate’. The sound was effortlessly silky and
controlled. They sounded well crafted, balanced and neat. I wondered sometimes
whether these striking characteristics could be labelled ‘too safe’ or
‘sanitised’, but to be honest, the Audiovectors controlled take on musical
presentation sounded very much like what I remember music has sounded like to
me when I have very occasionally found myself in recording studios. Even in
passages with a greater number of instruments performing more complex phrases,
the integrity of each sound was well preserved by the Audiovectors.
The
Audiovector’s share with the SD-1s the ribbon tweeter approach to high
frequencies, and benefit in general terms from the same extended, smooth,
rounded and realistic treble efforts. One could hear easily that the drummer
was making real effort to strike the cymbal gently in one section, and then
striking the outside of the bell of the ride cymbal in another. A real revelation
to a novice drummer like myself.
Having
said that, to my ears, high frequency instruments through the Audiovectors were
less prominent, than they had been with the SD-1s. Instead, the Audiovectors
sounded as if it was using more current to power it’s mid range response. Jason
commented that he feels that he enjoys equipment that makes the most of those
sounds (including vocals) that are prominent in the midrange. At times vocals
sounded a little thickened (even ‘boxed in’ on one track) to me in terms of
lower midrange. Although I accept that that could well be merely an observation
relative to the sound I’m used to rather than a criticism of the Audiovectors
in any absolute sense.
Other
than my quiet concerns about a ‘too safe’ sound, Mick commented that he
perceived a hardening of the sound of vocals during louder passages. But,
overall, the Audiovectors put on a splendid performance. As they were carefully
disconnected, they left a memory of sounding ludicrously polished.
cont...
The
final effort of the session was made by my NVA Cube 1 (£1400).
(These
we set to 92.0dB)
As
I hooked my NVA Cube 1s back into my system I was concerned that following the
Audiovectors, and after a couple of hours of ribbon tweeters my speakers were
going to sound dull and insipid, or worse, brittle and harsh. Well as sticks
hit skin and metal on the first few tracks, there was a change in the character
of treble response - those lovely cymbals weren’t as realistic as they had been
with either the SD-1s or the Audiovectors, but the Cubes sounded fine, the
overall trebble impression wasn’t to bad at all actually. In fact, as the first
couple of tracks played their way through my little black boxes I was quietly
pleased that they had never sounded better. Many thanks to Jason’s TFS on that
one! More of that later…
The
sound was lively, well proportioned, realistic and no aberrant nasties at all.
There wasn’t quite the same sense of composure and balance as there had been
with the Audiovectors, but I wasn’t sure if the very in-your-face presentation
of the Cube’s aren’t part of the reason that I have come to love them. I
thought there might have been a hint of roughness or grain in the vocals that
hadn’t been present with the Audiovectors, but overall I was relieved. I still
liked their big, dynamic, exciting and musical sound.
Jason
was actually taken aback by the performance of the Cube 1s. Despite being
involved with NVA on a design and business level, Jason has been discrete in
his comments to me about NVA speakers in the past. As the first track finished
he exclaimed his delighted surprise at how good he felt that my Cubes sounded
(“I’m blown away” I think were his words). We speculated as to why my pair
might sound so different to how he remembered the Cubes sounding previously.
But, to be honest, other than extensive run-in and a fortunately positive
relationship between the Cube design and my room, we couldn’t think of any.
Jason went on to comment that the Cubes were throwing out an unusually large
sound stage.
Mick
was again concerned about the hardening of sounds during louder passages, but
we all seemed to continue tapping at least one of our feet.
Following a disagreement over which speaker had
the most accurate bass response, Mick and Jason square up on the mat...
So,
the verdict…? Well we all seemed in agreement.
In
):
absolute terms (though cheeky female comparisons are solely my own
Middleton – Well bred, aspirational, sophisticated)
Jolie – in your face, seductive, raw)
Paltro – strangely alluring, charismatic performer, if a bit thin).
In
what-we paid value for money terms:
(£4500)
In
new-price terms:
(£5500)
Jason takes one of his necessary hourly Star Wars
fixes...
cont....
I
enjoyed all of the speakers, but for me the stand-out performer of the day was,
as I hinted above, Jason’s NVA TFS. For me a real revelation. I’ll save my
specific comments on the TFS for another time, but I am very grateful to Jason
for allowing me to hold on to a model on loan. I am enjoying its company
hugely.
One
final and rambling post-script to the bake-off…
I’ve
stated that I take great pleasure in the social aspect of these sorts of
get-togethers. At the same time, regardless of how friendly and fun they are at
the end of the day one is putting one’s ego on the line at a bake-off.
Of
course, the opportunity to compare and contrast one’s own kit with that of
others, and even declare a winner, is obviously a key part, and attraction, of
a bake-off. This competitive edge runs in emotional tandem with all the gleeful
social smiling.
Everyone
present has put huge amounts of time and effort into their system, and, in many
cases, their persona on internet hifi forums. Of course, no one(?) has
consciously assembled their hi-fi and online reputations merely as status
symbols, but, with substantial financial and time investment are all of sudden
under peer scrutiny, it has been hard for me not to feel under a little under
pressure at bake-offs. I’m not talking cold sweats and the shakes, just a
nagging “what if after all this my system is really shit…?” kind of feeling.
In
fact, at all of the bake-off that I have attended I perceived several
potentially tricky moments of unspoken social dialogue:
discerning where the group as an average is striking a balance between
diplomacy and honesty when saying anything at all about the musical and
hifi choices and opinions of others;
personally satisfied with that balance.
deciding whether one would be more confident in being more honest, or more
diplomatic (or at least as honest, with a sprinkling of humour).
response to people who are giving ‘too honest’ an opinion about one’s own
musical and hifi choices and opinions.
I
am not pretending that this is necessarily a conscious process, or that the
process is peculiar to hifi bake-offs. At the same time, I cannot accept that
anyone with a modicum of social skills could say in all truthfulness “I just
tell like it is”, unless they are trying to look big-‘un-‘ard. Different groups
will find different balance points, but find a balance they must if the members
of that group are to be made to feel comfortable.
Thankfully, everyone at the bake-off in my lounge appeared
to have similar levels of:
and;
voice that honesty in diplomatic terms.
So
I felt that finding a balance was relatively easy and that everyone felt
comfortable to make and take honest comments. Thanks Jason and Mick! Hope to
repeat the enjoyable and informative experience again soon…
FINISH
The write-up in its entirety exceeded the maximum number of characters for a single post, thus I had to post it in several separate posts. The pasting from a word document seems to have resulted in some perculiarities in justification and images.
Thanks you for your patience!
Ben
I will go that route next time.
Ben
Sounds like a really good day was had by all and that the Cubes stood up well against the opposition.
Re Jason's Audiovectors I agree with Dave that they really shone at the Halloween bake-off room with lots of room to breathe. Understand your comments about their politeness at odds to the Cubes which are there to make a big and bold sound and sod manners !!
Enjoy the TFS - my early TFS/Nexus prototype is very good and is the most 'analoguish' digital source I have heard or owned.
Shame there were no Royds there - just to see how they stood up !