PAC interconnect

Alan

Hi Paul

I just bought these from a Nick on T'Wam:



I don't know much about them, save that they were cheap enough to be an impulse buy and that I think he said they were silver? What can you tell me about them? Do they equate (or nearly) with anything you make now?

I haven't used them yet as I loaned out my office system to someone who fell on hard times, and as far as the big rig goes - well they are too short to go betwixt the pre & amp. Maybe when I get my new amps they might be viable.

I may try them from the DAC to Pre though, but without matching cables downstream I'm not sure of the point, whether any difference these make will be audible.

uglymusic

There's only one way to find out if they'll make a difference. That's to try them.

And, to take your argument to the (il)logical conclusion, you'd only get discernible changes from swapping speakers ;-)

Alan

Nah - I thought I would just get them out, place them on the desk and look at them every few weeks or so - just to keep them special like! 8-}

Actually, your point makes a lot sense (I hadn't thought of it quite like that) - maybe my OCD preference for symmetry and matching things is taking over! @-)

I will of course try them, when I get a moment of five of peace in this madhouse! ~X(

uglymusic

The way to keep interconnects feeling special is to buy them flowers
B-)

Alan

If it's silver, then it should be similar in character to SSP which I think are silver alloy. Paul should be able to add something, didn't he reterminate some SSP for you once? The SSP has a bigger guage though. But then, poorer plugs. Should be interesting to compare.

uglymusic

Paul did me some custom interconnects terminated with SMA at one end. 

PAC

Hi Alan

sorry for the delay in responding.

Those were an early set made to custom order (ie that's what the customer wanted!) about a year ago.  The materials I think were either Mundorf 5N silver or HTC silver, PTFE/air dielectric, twisted pair using neutrik GP RCA's and 4% silver solder.

I tested them myself and they sounded pretty open and clear with no noise intrusion in my own system.

Have to admit I wouldn't go down the route of providing unscreened twisted pairs anymore, and the current pluto cables probably cost less and perform better!  If they were cheap, then try them and see...you shouldn't lose anything on them as I know what they cost me in materials and you probably paid less than that!

Alan

Thanks Paul, looking forward to hearing them.

PAC

Hi Alan

Update!

just checked my records.  Whilst these look like a pair that I made, they're not mine.  The one's I supplied (June 2011) were three conductor (one signal, two return) and were Mundorff.  Lots look similar hence my initial enthusiasm!  Similar spec. If those are silver, and twisted pair they'll be fairly low capacitance and should sound quite detailed but won't screen against RFI/EMI.

Alan

OK mate, sounds interesting. Certainly they seem well made. And yes, it was Graham - It was Nick I bought the AKGs from!
:-S

Alan

Paul - I just realised you posted these weren't cables you made! How strange, as Graham said they were yours. I must email him and see if I can track down who made them.

Well, along with messing with my pre last week I also put these I/Cs in the system, between the pre & power amp. It replaced an NVA SSP, a similar cable. Both are unshielded silver interconncts, but the SSP is much thicker and stiffer. This cable has considerably better RCA plugs though, they made a really satisfying connection.

It sounds very similar to the SSP actually, except it lacks the deepest bass the SSP gave. I would guess this is down to the thickness of the wires, but apart from that it was very similar. I didn't mind losing a little of that deep bass as I was having a few bass issues anyway, and this definitely helped. There's not a lot in it, it simply sounds like the bassist has either been turned down or is standing further away.

These cables do steal a march on the SSPs in one area though, they are beautifully detailed in the upper bass and midrange. The leading edge of every sound is brightly lit and well defined, and low level detail like texture is more apparent. This may be because the extra bass the SSPs permit swamps this more delicate detail, I can't be sure, bit I do like having it right now.

I already miss the deeper bass though, so I am plotting ways to 'eat this cake'. I wonder - and it's a long shot - if the better Neutrik plugs on this cable are contributing to some of the good points I am enjoying. I have never really had differences in RCA plugs demonstrated to me but I have been taught a lot about audio in the last six months - enough to push my scepticism aside. So, I have ordered some Neutrik profi gold RCA plugs, which always used to be well thought of. They are a step above what is on this cable, so I plan to re-terminate my SSP with these and see if I can retain this lovely delicate detail and have the low bass energy.

uglymusic

Or get Paul to cook you up some proper interconnects?
:-\"

PAC

Hi Alan

I have made leads for Graham (who's a great guy BTW) and the reason I mentioned that those may not be mine is that I cannot remember adding the white marker with the direction arrow on the leads I made for Graham.  That in fairness may have been something that Graham added? I could on the other hand be going senile and these may have been an early pair of mine! The bass issue is unlikely to be the cables.  You can get full bandwidth from very thin cables.  In fact, thinner conductors have some theoretical advantages when it comes to phase accuracy (timbre) across the audible spectrum.  Remember that the cable is in a very low current/high impedance circuit so cable impedance is not the main defining property for bass definition.

There is a large difference between various plug designs.  I have used different plugs on the new Reference Pluto cable revised from it's previous incarnation (cardas terminated previously) which got this reaction from the HP reviewer (in this case, being Jerry).  Plug design is very important and to be honest, whilst a reasonable budget plug, the Neutriks are easily bettered by the likes of Eichmann and Furutech designs (which is why I use them).  A little info on RCA designs and why they matter can be found here.

What is important is the quality of the termination, particularly if soldered, the design of the grounding collar, quality of platings (and contrary to the issue on cable impedance the plugs MUST make good physical and therefore electrical contact).

You didn't pay much for them and they obviously do a decent job with resolution, so sounds like a reasonable outcome?  

Alan

Yes Paul, I am very pleased with them indeed. I think the collars are a later addition, especially the biro arrow marking...

Thanks for setting me straight about plugs and cable thickness. The differences may not be down to the basic cable then?

I hope to see some of the plug differences demonstrated when I reterminate my SSP, assuming I can do a half-decent job. BTW, I have had my eye on your Plutos for a while now.

PAC

Ah...if the collars are a later addition then I may have to hold my hands up and say that these are an early lead I made, so Graham was correct!  The Neutriks changed over a year back to use rubber strain relief grommits and I haven't used the sprung strain relief bases for quite a while now.

Yes, conductor thickness is not an indicator of potential bass performance.  If it were practical (and its not as the cable would be too fragile) a 0.1mm cable would be really good for a number of reasons.  Look at tonearm wiring...that's often just a mm or two thick from headshell to RCA connectors and there's no lack of bass because of that.

I'm sure you'll do a great job on your SSps Alan and looking forward to hearing back how you get on

As to the Plutos...yes, I'm dead chuffed with those as the performance and quality is fabulous for the outlay.

Alan

Well, in that case I am eager to see if the more expensive SSPs can beat these little silver cables of yours where they do so well. To be honest, I am probably being far to specific in my hopes, but it doesn't cost much to try. I just need the time to do them.

PAC

Just try away Alan.  Its all good fun and a learning experience!  You can design (in theory) for the most revealing sound possible by designing for the least signal degradation, but always remember that inside your amps you have a lot of wiring that is plain hook up wire, nothing fancy, and that the IC's are part of the total circuit.  They're an important part because of their length, susceptibility to EMI/RFI interference, and due to the cable/connector/socket joints, so there's a lot to interfere with the signal!  I look first at cable geometry (including signal conductor thickness and dielectrics used), screening (braided preferably), capacitance (a function of the separation distance between conductors, their size and the dielectrics used) then select what I consider to be the most appropriate connector for the cable and for mechanical performance as well as electrical performance.  I've gone through a bucket load of different ones before settling on the ones I now use and I have found that the quality and performance (electrical and mechanical) varies significantly between them.  The ones I have settled with I believe to be the best I've tried and meet the design criteria that I look for in a decent plug.