NVA -How good, how bad
I've had an extensive discussion on the NVA site about what I think are the inherent mechnical flaws in their Super Sound Pipe IC. Before it was spotted by the manufacturer, a broken neg caused my system to blow two tweeters, so my system was out of action for two months (so I have a bit of an interest). The manufacturer has now started speccing Neutrik plugs as an apparent corrective because (and I quote) 'ten percent' of his customers' are 'idiots'.
In the course of challenging the manufacturers about this, I was subject to some [mod - minor edit] attacks. When I tried to make peace with the manufacturer (who, perhaps predictably, completely overeacted), I was summariy evicted from their site on totally specious grounds of 'ad hominem'.
This is from a manufacturer who spends a great deal of his time criticising other hi fi sites (including Chews) for 'shilling', 'lack of free speech' etc.
The hypocrisy is immense. I would recommend NVA amps to anyone withut a second thought. But their customer relations are perhaps the worst I've ever seen from any manufacturer of anything. Caveat emptor.
Comments
Welcome.
You point to various frustrating dichotomies that will resonate with some here.
I have lightly pruned one sentence and deleted a repeat of your post.
My initial impression is that your post is on the whole reasonable and carefully worded. We are an easy going bunch here who would generally wish to avoid inter-forum nastiness. Dave may take a different view, but I feel you have taken care to present your feelings in a considered way.
Doc -
Thanks, and I appreciate the pruning. Nonetheless I feel that the hypocrisy needs to be commented upon, and I would welcome the manufacturer's right to reply here, at least on the grounds that he cannot summarily delete my account, as he has on his own site..
The thread in question is here:
[Modded by uglymusic (Dave). Sorry, we don't allow linked comments about other forums. Historically, this is because we objected to HFS's constant moaning about what was happening on other forums and, frankly, stirring]
Tim
I am enormously satisfied with my NVA kit.
The after-sales service I have received, and continue to receive from Jason for my NVA TFS is second to none. Incredibly efficient and friendly.
I have also had good service from Richard who has always sorted out problems (including broken SSP solders) at little or no cost. Beyond that, as I said above, your frustrations will resonate here.
Not sure Dave (uglymusic) will want half of an inter-forum discussion going on here.
(I suspect Richard will not wish to post on 'chews.)
Damn, now you've got me being naughty.
Well I do think I've been treated very badly, and very against the spirit apparently expressed on that other forum, which seems to have a definition of 'ad hominem' that would defeat Socrates himself.
But the kit itself is wonderful, which, weirdly, is what I was pointing out when I was interrupted...
As,obviously, is TQ. Cough.
I get the impression that you're feeling angry and upset about what's happened on hfs. If it's any consolation, you're certainly not in a unique position.
There is absolutely no need to take it personally.
First, with my modding hat on:
This looks very like an inter-forum spat to me, which we ask all users to refrain from. May I ask, have you asked the same question on the other main forums, or have you chosen us only? Discussion of RD the person isn't allowed here, nor is he welcome to join AudioChews (he has been here before). Also, posting about the HFS forum is discouraged on Chews as the negativity so prevalent there will surely follow to here.
Having made the distinction above, Chews does not want to be an enemy of NVA the company, its products are highly regarded here. Indeed, a google search for NVA usually brings Chews up as one of the first results, and we want it to be a matter of public record that whatever the characters (or lack of) involved, the man from NVA makes exceptionally good amplifiers and cables.
If I am doing you a disservice with the above, I apologise. I do understand your frustration, believe me... This thread will have to be monitored though. I'm sure a moderators discussion will follow in the next few days as to whether this thread will stand, depending on which direction it goes in. I hope you understand.
In answer to your question: NVA = Very good, especially in VFM terms.
SSPs specifically; well in a way I hate them too. I too have had tweeters fail (well, to have hugely reduced output anyway), and I speculatively put it down to a combination of SSP 'howls' over the years, and the minimal crossover in my speakers making them vulnerable. Also, when they howl, I have a heart attack. However, until I can find something I like better, I will continue to use the wretched things, because they sound wonderful to my ears.
But are they deficient in design terms? They are stiff because of what they are, there is nothing NVA can do about it IMO. To use NVA means being locked into their philosophy to a degree, for instance passive pre's, low cap speaker cable, no mains cable changes, and if you choose to use them, the careful deployment of their rigid I/Cs. I believe there is not a deficiency in the design of SSPs, they are necessarily as they are because of what they are made of. If a customer chooses to use them because he thinks they sound good (and it is a customer's choice), then it's his own responsibility. Rigidity is the nature of the raw materials in the product, I'm afraid.
If NVA could be bought through a shop, with a distributor network and various insurances in place, I'm sure your tweeters (and mine) would have been sorted out for us to maintain a good reputation. However, part of the appeal of NVA is supporting the manufacturer directly, and not paying extra to the middle men like retailers, distributors etc. Now that's well and good, but cutting out the middle men means cutting out what they do, in this case supporting the aggrieved customer (whether he is right or wrong). It's one of the drawbacks of supporting small UK manufacturers. The other being, if you fall out with them, you are on your own as regards customer support, as some of us have found.
I learned to fix SSPs myself in the end, it was much quicker. I note you say NVA now fit beefier plugs - that seems a good idea (I put Neutrik Profis on mine a couple of years back), but it must add to the cost.
Almost two years ago, when I became familiar with the SSP, I decided to
try copying the SSP construction into the sound cord (the £10 cheapie).
All you need to do is take two pairs of cords istead of one, and instead of wiring the
core and shield to the pin and barrel, you use two cords and wire only the cores (leave the shields out altogether). In effect, you are doubling the cable (so 2 pairs become 1 set of I/C).
It's almost as good as SSP TBH, not so much in it, and it clearly outperforms the SoundPipes, which were always my least favourite of the range.
I think RD has just started marketing that very product...
I agree that the products (well...the amps) are very good vfm. But Alan's point is right - the problem with a one man band is that you are largely dependent on the individual concerned.
My case that SSPs are inherently mechanically flawed because they place a greater strain on the solder joint (and, to a less important extent, the plugs) is a reasonable one. Whatever the case, I have no intention of using the wretched things again, and their replacements in the form of DNM and Grant cables, are doing the trick very nicely.
What has really depressed me about this sad little episode is the fact that this individual spends a good deal of his time observing and bad mouthing other fora for what he regards as their 'hypocrisy'. And yet 'criticism' on his own forum - even when it's an attempt to move on from a row - is immediately censored.
Apparently I'm now 'on the naughty step' - but I have no intention of participating on that forum again and will minimise any dealings with the manufacturer over and above buying his kit in the future - something I'm still very open to as I regard it highly (apart from some of the interconnects...).
I once tried to reason with the 'PR officer' at NVA about what he was saying on his forum, you should have seen the stream of abuse I got in my inbox... such unreasoning rages, and the feeling of needing to be disassociated with such poisonous public rhetoric (while pretending to be on some kind of moral high ground!!!) was what led to five of us setting up this place.
We should have called it 'AudioFugees'!