Young DAC

uglymusic

It has just arrived. 

First impressions are that it's pretty substantial. Nicely designed and built in an artisan kind of style. Like it!

One immediate disappointment is that it comes with a European-style wall-wart, so I'm having to plug it in with a shaver adapter.

I'll get it set up and then I can report that it sounds like any other brand-new piece of electronics :-)

Alan

D'oh! Should be good in a bathroom system then!
#-O

uglymusic

Maybe I can float it on my bath water  X_X

Alan

So is it a two round-pin plug then? Or are the specs written on the transformer itself? It could be worth getting a maplins jobbie.

uglymusic

Yup. But the manual says something about using another power supply invalidates the guarantee.

I'll need to look at that section again.

Jim

What's a shaver adapter?

uglymusic

An essential piece of audiophile kit, it seems 

Alan

Shaving? I thought facial hair minimized diffraction around the face????


Nothings ever easy, is it!

[-(

Jim

Shaving? I thought facial hair minimized diffraction around the face????


Nothings ever easy, is it!

[-(

Spot on mate.  In my pre facial hair days I never could get the system to sound right

uglymusic

You are truly the Peter Belt of St Leonards.

uglymusic

Anyway, back to this Discussion's true topic 

The Mac OS X driver is not yet available, so I've pressed my HiFace into service with an old Audioquest digital interconnect as my NVA Soundpipe one seems to have deceased :-(

Immediate impressions are it's cold and tonally horrible, but the dynamics, stereo image and 'blackness' are all quite something.

uglymusic

Second thought. We struggled at the Bake-off Show to find significant differences between the DACs we tried.

My KingRex was somewhat lost in the pack, at 'about average'. The Young DAC sounds more different, in terms of what it's doing well, from the KingRex than any of the other DACs did on the day.

The Young is really promising.

Alan

Well, I haven't yet tried it on the MAC, as the driver situation is not yet clear. No worries - I'll still use it on the SKY+ box then for t'telly.



Sounds promising, if a little hard, not much midrange was an immediate thought, but then it was just television going through it. It won't hold the signal for long though - it's fine when on one channel, it might even tolerate one or two changes of channel - but it quickly loses it's lock & no more sound! It won't lock again even after going through all the inputs, switching on & off, and fiddling with the sky box. I have to unplug the DAC for a few minutes for it to reset and that won't always work. I've cleaned the ends of the optical cable, tightened the plugs, but to no avail.
So not the most auspicious start, but it wasn't bought for TV duties - so the maiden trip will have to wait.
:-??

uglymusic

I called Keith earlier. Marco's programmer is supposedly recompiling the drivers.

He seems to be taking his time about it 

At the moment, it seems lacking in bass when compared to the KingRex, although the top end is getting smoother as time goes by. I don't know whether to point to the ancient Audioquest cable as the probable culprit or not.

Alan

Dave - I've been thinking again.......(The pain, it hurts, it hurts!!) - are you still using a shaving adapter on the Young?

When I got back from Croydon on Friday, I was chuffed to see the Young had arrived, but mortified that I wouldn't be able to plug it in until Tuesday this week, as I had no adapter. I raced to Maplin as they were closing & persuaded the spotty kid to let me in for one.

I asked whether I ought to get a shaving adapter or a tourist adapter - they looked similar. I was told the shaving adapter was only 1amp, and the tourist adapter was 13amps - so I got that.

That seems to be the only real difference in our setups - apart from the digi coax cable - I just wondered if that might be your bass suck-out?

coops

I am sorry for the delay in drivers, tomorrow I will post a hiface to both of you, at least you will have some music, again my sincere apologies, the bass thing is odd, no other reports of lack of bass, in face here the bass is extremely good.
vb Keith.

uglymusic

I am sorry for the delay in drivers, tomorrow I will post a hiface to both of you, at least you will have some music, again my sincere apologies, the bass thing is odd, no other reports of lack of bass, in face here the bass is extremely good.
vb Keith.

Thanks Keith

I appreciate all you're doing. 

I do have a HiFace, but trying another, just to eliminate anything being wrong with this one, would be great.

I do have another theory (as does Alan) - see next comment - which I should be able to check before the day is out.

uglymusic

Dave - I've been thinking again.......(The pain, it hurts, it hurts!!) - are you still using a shaving adapter on the Young?

When I got back from Croydon on Friday, I was chuffed to see the Young had arrived, but mortified that I wouldn't be able to plug it in until Tuesday this week, as I had no adapter. I raced to Maplin as they were closing & persuaded the spotty kid to let me in for one.

I asked whether I ought to get a shaving adapter or a tourist adapter - they looked similar. I was told the shaving adapter was only 1amp, and the tourist adapter was 13amps - so I got that.

That seems to be the only real difference in our setups - apart from the digi coax cable - I just wondered if that might be your bass suck-out?

Funnily enough at the dead of last night, I had a similar thought, having mused about the effect of feeding the Young with a decent power supply (the difference between using a wall-wart and the external PS on the KingRex was huge - from unlistenable to happily existing at the front of my system with components way above its price range). 

Anyway, this morning I had a fiddle, and found that it was possible to have the wall-wart inserted in the adapter without it making contact.

Hmm. Off to Currys to get a travel adapter.

Alan

I'll be most interested to see the outcome, and relieved for you too if that's it.



Mine is burning in some more to 'Happy Feet' with the children now!
Jim is in it you know...

:-

Alan

BTW, I like the way you've casually mentioned 'AudioChews.com' on ComputerAudiophile (.com) twice now, almost as if slipped out by accident..
:-" :-))

Jim

Loads of hair - check
Loads of belly - check
No beard - nope not me

Alan

Bet you can dance though...

Jim

Now you mention it...

uglymusic

BTW, I like the way you've casually mentioned 'AudioChews.com' on ComputerAudiophile (.com) twice now, almost as if slipped out by accident..
:-" :-))

Didn't it?  :-D

uglymusic

I'll be most interested to see the outcome, and relieved for you too if that's it.



Mine is burning in some more to 'Happy Feet' with the children now!
Jim is in it you know...

:-

Sadly, nothing much in the improvement stakes.

I think it's time to start playing with the MacBooks, running the latest OS X and see what happens with AyreWave et al.

Alan

#-O :-<

uglymusic

I have bass! And very nice it is, too.

I needed expenditure of over £1000, though:

1. A 2-pin European plug to 3-pin UK plug adapter (about 10% of the improvement)
2. My MacBook Air, running Snow Leopard (about 45% of the improvement)
3. AyreWave software (about 45% of the improvement)

My MBA is not going to stay with the system, so the next step is to install OS X 10.6 on my White MacBook and see what that sounds like.

Alan

Most cool!! I am extremely chuffed for you - I just hope to join the party soon!

:-S

TBH, I was previously puzzled at your opinion of AyreWave. It has always been more than just 'different' here - in fact I haven't used iTunes for months now.

Come on then - how is my DAC?

uglymusic

Most cool!! I am extremely chuffed for you - I just hope to join the party soon!

:-S

TBH, I was previously puzzled at your opinion of AyreWave. It has always been more than just 'different' here - in fact I haven't used iTunes for months now.

Come on then - how is my DAC?

I'd only been able to run AyreWave on my iMac in my office system, with no external DAC. It's not a clear enough window to judge.

How is your DAC? Why don't you ask it? All hi-fi really appreciates the occasional chat, otherwise it feels left out.

Alan

Especially temperamental, beautiful Italian HiFi!

8-> sigh...

uglymusic

I want to have a good listen before saying anything else.

It's taken me a few days to get to the stage where it's worth trying to figure out if the Young is a keeper or not. I'd like to compare it to a W4S DAC2, but the price difference adds up to around the cost of a new audio server to replace the Mac mini G4, and with a G4 Mac, I can't run AyreWave or many of the other interesting pieces of Mac software.

I'm also left wondering if the 10.6 HiFace driver sounds better than the 10.4 one. 

And, as I've said before, I can't be a***d to wait while Audiolab work out how to put John Westlake's design into production.

coops

David ,Alan Richard! I am sending out the hifaces today, to Alan and Richard ( to try ) once againI am sorry to send you a product that is not fully functional, I will speak toMarco again today.
Your patience and support is appreciated.
Keith.

Alan

Keith - it is pleasure to be dealing with you. Don't sweat it, it will be fine in the end; the anticipation is building nicely.

uglymusic

Well, this evening I've swapped the MacBook Air for the White MacBook with OS X 10.6, the same version as the MBA.

All I have installed on the MacBook is OS X and its standard software, the HiFace driver and AyreWave. I haven't nobbled Spotlight or done any audiophile things because I want to listen to the Young.

The Chief of the UglyMusic household says she thinks the Young is much better than the old DAC - at least when playing some JJ Cale. She quite often says she can't hear the difference when I make changes to the system.

Alan

Typical reviewer cliché - even the wife heard it!....what about the cat?







X_   only joking!

uglymusic

No cat. Only Seagulls.

uglymusic

Have you put aside lots of listening time tomorrow?

Alan

I am hoping for some, but probably not until evening unless I get very lucky. Not easy with three sprogs!

On a slightly worrying note, my one has stopped locking onto the optical signal from SKY box at all today. Hope it's not symptomatic of something more serious...

uglymusic

Can't you play them Bob the Builder?

I haven't tried optical (can't find my TOSLINK cable), but I hope what you're suffering isn't symptomatic of Italian manufacturing 

O:)

Alan

I know. I'm just glad it has an aluminium case...That isn't fair, is it!

[-X

uglymusic

You mean it's like an NVA product?

Alan

Well, I meant none of my HiFi can rust at least!

uglymusic

LOL. 

You think you've got problems. You should see how things rust here!

Gromit

Big thumbs up and thanks to Keith for sending me out the Hiface to try.

Installation (even for a total techno-numpty like me) was a piece of cake and now it's up and running. Sadly, the DM will only accept incoming sample rates up to 96k so I can't make full use of the HF's full-fat 192. Still, it sounds pretty good as is. I did notice the Mac's output in Midi Audio is now showing '192/32 bit' though - is that right? As said though, I've had to peg it back to 96k for the D'magic to work.

At first sounded a wee bit dull, flat even, but I've soon started to realise it's not making a meal of things - it's lost that slight bull-in-a-china-shop presentation, yet I hear no loss in transient dynamics. There's more subtle dynamic differentiation and pitch definition (my big thing) is more coherent.

A neat little piece of kit - the Evo must be pretty darn good if it's an improvement on this (which I guess it should be).

Alan

Thanks to Keith also - the HiFace has arrived safely. The Young is popping & clicking a bit today, and I'm gradually working through the possible issues. I am just re-installing the drivers to be sure.

I had very poor bass to start with, but this was mostly cured by using a different USB socket on the back of the mini! How strange is that?

In between pops & clicks, I am more than a little exited by these sounds...

uglymusic

Thanks to Keith also - the HiFace has arrived safely. The Young is popping & clicking a bit today, and I'm gradually working through the possible issues. I am just re-installing the drivers to be sure.

I had very poor bass to start with, but this was mostly cured by using a different USB socket on the back of the mini! How strange is that?

In between pops & clicks, I am more than a little exited by these sounds...

Strangely enough, pops and clicks have so far not been a problem here.

Now, the USB sound difference is something that has been reported all over the place, and I found when I made comparisons some time ago. Your experience has made me wonder if I'd forgotten which of my USB sockets sounds best and used the wrong one with the HiFace.

I'll certainly try that again, but the MacBook is staying for the moment as I can run 10.6 on it. Must also try the other USB port on the MacBook.

Alan

Using system profiler, I can see which USB socket is least used for bluetooth, IR etc. For me, the best (& best sounding) is the second in from the edge - that'll mind me not to be sloppy again.

The clicks are more of a crackle, in time with the music. Dr John's "I'm gonna go fishin'" from Duke Elegant is a very good example of it, and it seems to have more in common with dynamic mixes than anything else.

My mini is version 3.1, with 10.6.5 on it. It shouldn't be hardware related, unless my low cap' digital I/C disagrees with the Young?

BTW, did you update your driver, or was your existing one the latest?

uglymusic

I never thought of looking in system profiler. I just used my Subjectivist's Flappy Bits(TM).

I updated the driver.

Alan

Update on crackles - it's related to dynamics. Trumpets & Sax's do it now - just been playing some Dave Grusin.

I'm trying a bit of very boring 96kHz Hi-Rez sampler stuff now to see if I can find it there. None of it is 'hot' enough though.

Edit - my previous mention of stuttering on some 192 material was quite likely software related - my first AW crash for weeks followed shortly after!

I am quite sure my bass is still thin though, but beautifully textured. Rather like me!
:-D

uglymusic

Do you get the crackles with iTunes?

The bass I'm getting now is leaner and faster, more textured and more sculpted than previously.

Also, don't believe what Keith and the guy whose name I forget on CA say 

My Young is getting better as I play more music through it.

Alan

I can't remember, but I suppose you might mean Burn in 'Atheism'? I am a believer, most especially with DACs, and mine has changed a lot too. In between crackles the bass texture in particular is quite stunning.

After adding to library again, the crackling went with iTunes - excellent, but AyreWave still crackles like a streaky rasher (stick that simile in your reviewer's pipe...). I am sending some logs to Stephen Booth tonight.