To be honest I don't really like how the vaughan looks, it better sound fantastic. I agree that most of the tricks have been implemented in the Young, the Vaughan will use better parts than the crappy caps and impulse regs. My Young has all the caps replaced and is a totally different beast now, I hope to have the DC-DC regs replaced soon, will post a picture asap.
'Better parts' ? I'm not sure just swapping parts makes any difference in the Young, certainly that low ESR cap on the power supply input was a 'is there/isn't there' difference. The power of suggestion is a mighty thing when having parts swapped out- I prefer good hard measurements personally before/after to prove any difference. Or a back to back with an unmodded part.
I wasn't meaning I know what's inside the Vaughan, just thought that Marco could do better changing those cheap caps inside, I was more making a comment on the looks.Rereading my post I see you are right, I missed the word "probably". I think Marco has struck gold with his approach to digital and the Vaughan will be quite competitive even at that price.
Better parts means better parts- parts that perform better in the aplication they are used in. Like the cap that you are reffering to. You know what I mean , why do you have to ask the same thing again and again? Do I have to show measurements for everything?Show me the measurement on how that cap improved things, please. Let's not start a fight here, no point in that. I am just happy with the echnage of caps, the guy that did it for me is just the type you are - feeling comfortable with measurements but he heard the difference too and it was not sublte, not subtle at all. If your systems makes it hard to detect changes like that well, my offer for you to come for a visit is still open.
Forane, My point is that a change may not be an improvement, you might like the difference, but does it measure better, lower noise, more accurately, that's what counts, not difference for its own sake.
Like the input cap, I know the one I replaced has lower ESR, I couldn't reliably detect a difference in how it sounded re an unmodded player.
Yes its true Integer mode does not work with the Young dac, as Ive never been able to try Integer mode myself since the Young is not capable I wouldnt be able to comment if it makes any difference or not, however the Young is a very good dac, maybe in the future it will support Integer mode?
Hog mode means that the files play from memory, to be honest I could not tell much difference when i compared Hog and normal
Hi Lee/Magnus
Actually it is the 'Memory Play' feature that sees files played after being loaded into the computers RAM, and it is beneficial to my ears.
'Hog' mode is labelled 'Obtain Exclusive Access' or similar in Decibel, this means the audio output device (the DAC in this case) has sole access to the computers ability to output sound; no other programme can make sounds nor can the inbuilt computer speakers - only your DAC. It therefore 'Hogs' the sound output....
Nice little review that, thanks for posting Lee. The Calyx is a DAC I had wondered about, so I am pleased (&^ still content) after reading that review. If I was going to choose on the basis of a review like that I would probably jump towards the Young.
The Calyx was also a Dac I was considering myself at one time but the price difference of the Calyx at £1499 was a bit too high for me in the end, also when I heard the Young in the house it was a no brainer to be honest!
I still don't see a tempting DAC alternative to the Young at a sensible price point. The only DAC's I think (not having heard them) that would better the Young as an all rounder are the Zodiac Plus and Gold models.
I'm once again a Young owner, and I'm pleased I've switched back. I returned my first unit after some popping issues and concern about support in the US from a European based manufacturer.
I switched to the wyred4sound dac-2, but even after a few hundred hours of break in, I was yearning for the overalll sound of the Young. So the dac-2 is going back ( it also has a faulty RCA plug to boot), and a new Young arrived today.
Even with less than an hour break in, it has a much more refined sound and better soundstage than the dac-2, a more natural sound, with better midrange, bass, and less grain.
The dac-2 is not a bad performing unit at all, and I use their amps with great enjoyment (and the owner, ej sarmento, provides incredible support). And perhaps it's my setup, but whatever the reason, the Young is so much more listenable, engaging, and, well, emotionally thrilling about how it conveys music.
Thrang, yes I can source you a suitable 110v transformer. I have no idea what postage will be to the US, the total weight is about 3kg and package size 15x15x35 cm.
Cost will be £205+intl postage (there's £10 included in the normal cost for UK postage, hence yours being £205+ not £215+)
I currently have 6 units downstairs, i'll start linishing presently....
FWIW, my mate & I used to use a Skytiger 26 buggy-racing kite to body-drag through the sea from Widewater (Lancing) down to the old fort at Shoreham in near gale force winds. We used to do about 750 metres each & come ashore before our arms gave out! It was quite an experience to plane on your chest across the huge waves.
This was about 15 years ago now. I later spoke with J E Brown who set up the kite-boarding school on Shoreham beach & he said Gary & I were the first people he saw take a kite in the sea. Great times...
I thought I'd post part of an email from Marco I received today. Amongst other things I asked what the potential benefits would be if the Young could operate in Integer playback mode and if M2Tech had plans to introduce this capability.
It seemed relevant as a few players now use Integer playback, according to some listeners on Computer Audiophile there are real benefits to it (I believe beta versions of Decibel had Integer mode - I don't know if the licensed version does. Audirvana & Pure music do though). So I thought I'd ask, this is what he said:
"Regarding integer mode, we are actually doing some tests about that with an alpha driver, but it's too early to tell about this... The reason why most DAC's don't cope with integer mode is that the driver needs to export a specific interface which is generally not covered by the code templates used by programmers...
Interesting feedback from Marco considering Integer mode playback. Thanks for posting, Alan. Since the Musical Fidelity V-Link is integer mode capable I've been playing around with Pure Music 1.8a in combination w/ V-Link and the Young. My setup is PM in integer mode with Wire World USB cable to the V-Link sending the signal out via Blackcat cable to the BNC input of the Young and I must admit after a few nights of listening that this setup has lifted the quality in my chain to a new level. Richer warmer sounds with stunning black background compared to a the directly attached Young via USB or RCA/BNC. Despite that in my subjective perception feeding the Young via RCA or BNC is a leap-frog ahead of USB input. I really hope integer will find its way into the Young with one of the next updates
That is interesting, you really feel there is that order if improvement with integer playback? Quite surprising, given all the extra components, cables and plugs in the chain, but I guess received 'analogue' wisdom digital could be different with digital. Thanks for posting.
I've been trying over and over the same track playing from my MacBook Pro via USB to the Young and via V-Link interlinked to the BNC of the Young. Surely, all my personal hearings can't be objective and I can't proof whether the difference was related to Integer mode playback or simply the fact that BNC input beats USB. Interestingly in the Young review by Techradar and earlier in the German Audio magazine both authors summarized USB being inferior compared to SPDIF inputs. An advantage of integer mode playback is the bypassing of Apple core audio by hacking the player to talk to the driver in the DAC native data format like 24 bit integer, instead of core audio's standard 32 bit float format. I'm no software developer nor an engineer but I have doubts how M2Tech will be able to upgrade the Young integer capable by driver, I'm afraid this can only be achieved by new firmware, which can't be completed by the end-user.
You may be right, if that is the case I sure hope they will be willing to offer it as an optional 'upgrade'. I for one am curious (but by no means discontent).
It's interesting that Charles Hansen (of Ayre Acoustics) has recently posted a similar sentiment to Marco on the subject of Decibel over on CA:
"Some early beta versions of Decibel used fixed integer, but not the official release. It isn't so bad to make a program use fixed integer with one specific DAC, but it becomes very problematic when you are trying to make a program work with every single DAC in the world. It is especially a problem trying to support both Firewire and USB DACs as they need the data in completely different formats."
As an interesting aside, S Booth (developer of Decibel) posted this regarding Integer mode, and a certain 'haziness' over definitions:
"
I want to clarify one point about what integer mode (or integer playback) means in the context of Decibel. The term is becoming popular but it lacks a concise definition, so there can be some confusion on its meaning in various contexts.
If exclusive access is enabled and the DAC supports integer input, Decibel will send audio to the DAC as integers. In exclusive mode, as the name implies, Decibel has complete control over the audio device and what audio is sent to it.
Internally Decibel represents audio as floating point numbers. This isn't a problem because all "normal" sized integer audio samples can be converted to and from floating-point numbers 100% reversibly and with 100% accuracy.
What Charlie means by fixed integer in his post above is an all integer audio playback chain. Take a plain WAVE file on disk- in an all integer chain the audio will be read as an integer from the file, perhaps bit shifted left, and then sent to the DAC as an integer. There are no conversions to or from floating point. The end result, however, is the same- the same bits are sent to the DAC. Some early versions of AyreWave had an all integer playback chain, but I shifted to the floating point intermediate when I added support for more DACs and digital volume."
I'll probably stick this in the Decibel thread as well.
Nope. I keep thinking I must take some time out to read up on digital theory. But reason intervenes, and I go and do something more comforting to the soul O:)
Guys, let's not forget, bits are bits and numbers are numbers. Integer or floating point makes no difference to the value decoded at the dac, only how many steps it takes to get there. The difference between integer and floating point is literally 2 multiplication/division function processes on chip. Notice none of the designers are making any claims here, it just potentially simplifies the process by one step, done twice.
It's funny how some people prefer the sound of the young via spdif and others prefer it by USB, it was all USb magic when it came out and now the current bias appears to be spdif. What's the betting there's no difference...? ;-)
Comments
The case is just a prototype, nothing more, although I believe the dimensions won't change.
Keith.
Better parts means better parts- parts that perform better in the aplication they are used in. Like the cap that you are reffering to. You know what I mean , why do you have to ask the same thing again and again? Do I have to show measurements for everything?Show me the measurement on how that cap improved things, please. Let's not start a fight here, no point in that. I am just happy with the echnage of caps, the guy that did it for me is just the type you are - feeling comfortable with measurements but he heard the difference too and it was not sublte, not subtle at all. If your systems makes it hard to detect changes like that well, my offer for you to come for a visit is still open.
Hi!
My first post in this forum. I am a newbie in computer audio so this might be a stupid qustion.
I am using Audirvana as a player for my FLAC files and I have read that Integer mode is of benefit for SQ.
I also read that Ted B has tried that with the Young DAC and it did not work. My qustion is is that so? and does it matter?
Cheers!
/M
Ok! Thanks for your reply.
How about HOG mode? and what is the difference between Hog and integer mode?
I love the Young btw.
/M
Actually it is the 'Memory Play' feature that sees files played after being loaded into the computers RAM, and it is beneficial to my ears.
'Hog' mode is labelled 'Obtain Exclusive Access' or similar in Decibel, this means the audio output device (the DAC in this case) has sole access to the computers ability to output sound; no other programme can make sounds nor can the inbuilt computer speakers - only your DAC. It therefore 'Hogs' the sound output....
Hope this helps a little!
How much do they cost Simon ?
Paul.
I switched to the wyred4sound dac-2, but even after a few hundred hours of break in, I was yearning for the overalll sound of the Young. So the dac-2 is going back ( it also has a faulty RCA plug to boot), and a new Young arrived today.
Even with less than an hour break in, it has a much more refined sound and better soundstage than the dac-2, a more natural sound, with better midrange, bass, and less grain.
The dac-2 is not a bad performing unit at all, and I use their amps with great enjoyment (and the owner, ej sarmento, provides incredible support). And perhaps it's my setup, but whatever the reason, the Young is so much more listenable, engaging, and, well, emotionally thrilling about how it conveys music.
Now, to get a better power supply... :-)
http://tech.uk.msn.com/audio/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158211805
FWIW, my mate & I used to use a Skytiger 26 buggy-racing kite to body-drag through the sea from Widewater (Lancing) down to the old fort at Shoreham in near gale force winds. We used to do about 750 metres each & come ashore before our arms gave out! It was quite an experience to plane on your chest across the huge waves.
This was about 15 years ago now. I later spoke with J E Brown who set up the kite-boarding school on Shoreham beach & he said Gary & I were the first people he saw take a kite in the sea. Great times...
:-W
It seemed relevant as a few players now use Integer playback, according to some listeners on Computer Audiophile there are real benefits to it (I believe beta versions of Decibel had Integer mode - I don't know if the licensed version does. Audirvana & Pure music do though). So I thought I'd ask, this is what he said:
"Regarding integer mode, we are actually doing some
tests about that with an alpha driver, but it's too early to tell about this...
The reason why most DAC's don't cope with integer mode is that the driver needs
to export a specific interface which is generally not covered by the
code templates used by programmers...
So, Maybe....if it's any good.
It's interesting that Charles Hansen (of Ayre Acoustics) has recently posted a similar sentiment to Marco on the subject of Decibel over on CA:
"Some early beta versions of Decibel used fixed integer, but not the
official release. It isn't so bad to make a program use fixed integer
with one specific DAC, but it becomes very problematic when you are
trying to make a program work with every single DAC in the world. It is
especially a problem trying to support both Firewire and USB DACs as
they need the data in completely different formats."
"
I want to clarify one point about what integer
mode (or integer playback) means in the context of Decibel. The term is
becoming popular but it lacks a concise definition, so there can be
some confusion on its meaning in various contexts.
If exclusive access is enabled and the DAC supports integer input,
Decibel will send audio to the DAC as integers. In exclusive mode, as
the name implies, Decibel has complete control over the audio device and
what audio is sent to it.
Internally Decibel represents audio as floating point numbers. This
isn't a problem because all "normal" sized integer audio samples can be
converted to and from floating-point numbers 100% reversibly and with
100% accuracy.
What Charlie means by fixed integer in his post above is an
all integer audio playback chain. Take a plain WAVE file on disk- in an
all integer chain the audio will be read as an integer from the file,
perhaps bit shifted left, and then sent to the DAC as an integer. There
are no conversions to or from floating point. The end result, however,
is the same- the same bits are sent to the DAC. Some early versions of
AyreWave had an all integer playback chain, but I shifted to the
floating point intermediate when I added support for more DACs and
digital volume."
I'll probably stick this in the Decibel thread as well.
:-??
That you have a real life?
:O