Whilst I appreciate Radiohead tracks are filled with clicks there is deffo some clipping from the middle of this track that I can't hear on my vinyl version.
I am almost convinced there is a very slight clipping on some tracks - but it is minuscule, and I am hyper-sensitive to it after V1. The prime offender for me was 'I'm gonna go fishin' on Duke Elegant, by Dr John. It might just still clip very slightly on the transients (usually on HiHats & cymbals - which by nature are sharp & staccato), but it is very hard to tell. Not enough to worry about at the moment.
The issue I have is what is analogue clipping from somewhere in the production process, and what is digital clicking and popping from the Young overloading?
I'd convinced myself that I was hearing the former rather than the latter on a few albums - older 60s stuff - because they are quite different in character.
@Monty, that doesn't appear to fit with your Radiohead observations, though.
Its 0171 - never opened it. Not sure what you mean by mobo revision?
Thanks
Hi, thanks for the serial (I must have a very early V2 then... at least I hope it's a V2...), if you should happen to open your Young you will find inside a MOtherBOard with a printed label like "rev. 1.2 - 9/2010", that's the mobo revision
I'm currently listening to Roisin's Ruby Blue, flac'ed with foobar, and I can confirm the distorsions on track 3, also on track 5. the distorsions disappear by lowering -1db the volume, and/or lowering the output stream to 16bit with no dither applied (I've always used KS @ 32bit since the first time...).
very strange, never listened to something similar with the other cd I've flac'ed...... anyway don't think this is a big problem...lowering the volume with 32bit doesn't bring any quality loss if you are playing 16 or 24 bit files...
Its 0171 - never opened it. Not sure what you mean by mobo revision?
Thanks
Hi, thanks for the serial (I must have a very early V2 then... at least I hope it's a V2...), if you should happen to open your Young you will find inside a MOtherBOard with a printed label like "rev. 1.2 - 9/2010", that's the mobo revision
I'm currently listening to Roisin's Ruby Blue, flac'ed with foobar, and I can confirm the distorsions on track 3, also on track 5. the distorsions disappear by lowering -1db the volume, and/or lowering the output stream to 16bit with no dither applied (I've always used KS @ 32bit since the first time...).
very strange, never listened to something similar with the other cd I've flac'ed...... anyway don't think this is a big problem...lowering the volume with 32bit doesn't bring any quality loss if you are playing 16 or 24 bit files...
I just checked another 'worst offender' (perhaps in more ways than one) - Michael Bubles - It had better be tonight. Me & my kids have been bopping most of the afternoon....
I can confirm the distortion (crackling) is still present - mostly in the first 10 secs or so of the track. It is - and I need to emphasize this - very slight indeed, but unmistakeable. It does not clip at all in iTunes, which outputs a slightly lower volume than Decibel.
My ears are still tuned to this, after trialling V1 for so long. I don't yet find it intrusive as very few albums are affected. My other though thought is the same as David's - there may be a little clipping in the production/mastering, as these are certainly 'hot' mixes.
anyway even @ 32bit every cd I played was fine, no clipping, click or distorsion.... now I'm @ 16bit for the flac'ed cds, and change it to 32 when playing highres files
............ I can confirm the distortion (crackling) is still present - mostly in the first 10 secs or so of the track. It is - and I need to emphasize this - very slight indeed, but unmistakeable. It does not clip at all in iTunes, which outputs a slightly lower volume than Decibel. ............
Alan, if your player permits this, can you try to lower the bit depth of stream through the Young? I mean, the standard should be 32bit, can you try 16bit? with no volume decrease of course.
Decibel is a minimalist player and it doesn't support that kind of adjustment.
I just disabled all the exclusive access options & tried to adjust things in AudioMidi but there was only the 32bit option.
I suspect a MAC driver problem myself, as it still won't play 352 files without disabling the automatic sample rate adjust options and setting audiomidi manually to 384. Hopefully a revised driver will solve the rest of these issues.
B-) Do you have a link for the download samples you mentioned - MSB site?
Hi there, here is the link: http://www.msbtech.com/products/usb2.php (scroll down till "Signature File Downloads") btw, don't expect too much... or, well said, don't expect nothing, these are just test tracks to check the connection, no music here....
I'm enjoing my Young now with 44k ripped flac, how many of you find that the bass of this little toy is fantastic?
btw, my s/n is 0127, and my mobo report a 1.2 revision, what about yours?
mike
Thanks for that link - will have a shufti sometime.
Mine is 0169, and yes - the bass is gorgeous. \:D/
The clipping issue was brought up with the V1 version back on page 3 or 4 or so. Marco recommended to turn down Pure Music (in my case) to -1db (dithered volume) and it did the trick (with Amnesiac, etc). i've left it there for V2 and don't care to fix what ain't broken. My V2 Young, via USB, is sounding incredible.
I reported way back about the great sound of the V1 Young via AES/EBU, driven by my Weiss DAC2 digital ouput, and in fact stated that the two DACs, with same ASI Liveline interconnects, sounded almost identical. Well.....I haven't tested that V2 setup yet but I will tonight, very explicitly.
I'm part of a S/PDIF cable tour on Audio Circle right now. A few of us are demoing the Black Cat Veloce 75ohm S/PDIF cable, and it's in my hands right now. The day I received it I hadn't gotten the Young back yet so I tried it from an Oppo player into the Weiss (I never listen that way but it was a decent comparison). It significantly bettered my older Chris Sommovigo design'd Stereovox HDXV....so tonight I will give it a real good test....I will pit in once again against the HDXV, and also against my favorite budget AES cable, the DH Labs D-110. Last time I favored AES over S/PDIF and assumed it was the hardware (i.e not cables) but since the HDXV fared so poorly against the Veloce loaner maybe the hardware inputs/outputs are not to blame. Maybe my S/PDIF vs AES comparisons have been guided by a mediocre cable. So, tonight I'll set up the Weiss feeding the Young...and report back.
Perhaps it is preferable to to use a USB cable as the HiFace will asynchronously re-clock the signal, which then doesn't have to go through any more cabling.
not found clipping yet folks. But I shall now re-examine a few known tracks. I'm using PureMusic not Decibel and have the volume unattenuated with my v2 (0167), but needed -1db with v1 (0072).
I have not tried it but if you have a RCA/Phono Hi-Face you could bolt on the Hi-Face to your DAC using a RCA/Phono to RCA Phono cupler and do away with the digital RCA to RCA cable.
Clipping. I use ACDC-Back in Black for checking the clipping. it's obviously mixed hot, compressed and clips to 0.0db as easily seen in Audacity et al.
It used to click and pop with the V1 Young, it doesn't with the new one. But here's the thing.
Now that I know there is clipping in the digital file I can actually hear that when I listen to it, not an artefact from the Young but the actual loss of the peak.
Even when I play the bloody thing on vinyl....
Radikal, amazing that a £90 device can achieve what Rubidium clocks can not. I suspect there is something about that little black box that allows it to 'fake' the J/Test result under certain conditions, or it was simply measured incorrectly when tested. I await a Stereophile review with more testing.
Dumb power supply question (and US based): I realize the PS requires 15-18V but what abou the mA or amperage rating of the PS. the reason i ask is this: my Young DAC came to me with an inexpensive UK/Euro power supply wall-wart that I never got working, even with a Radio Shack US adapter. My dealer loaned me a laptop-style switching ps (18V, 3500mA) that is the basis for all my reviews and comments so far. I am likely to buy this damn DAC My dealer needs his laptop ps back eventually, and I need to hit Marco up for a true US wallwart (that I will likely replace anyway, but need it as part of the complete purchase).
So...I am in need of a short term ps and have a laptop one here that is 18.5V but also says 4.9A (4,9A). Can it be used? Should I look elsewhere? I have a large white Radio Shack wallwart, too, that is 18V and 1A. That one? Any suggestions short of TeddyPardo or Paul Hynes (cuz those of coming this way, but it will be awhile). I am not a battery fan...too lazy and non technical.
BTW, I'm just looking for the correct specs, not necessarily a phsyical ps recommendation. I'm just confused by the other ratings (watts, amps) outside of the 15v-18v spec. I don't want to fry anything.
The Young draws 300Ma, so anything beyond that will be fine, double that ability will be good, 5 x will be heading towards overkill.
The PS I've made use 1.6amp transformers to give a bit of notional headroom. not that it's needed the Young has 4 internal regulators and it never budges from drawing 300Ma.
Max input voltage is 24v, there's a 25v rated capacitor on the inside of the power pin socket.
So, for dummies like me, if I use that laptop ps that has 4.9 amps is it ok (I realize overkill is wasteful, but not harmful, right?)? Cuz at least the laptop ps has an IEC inlet to use a decnt power cord, etc. The other thing I have is a big ass wallwart from Radio Shack (18V, 1A) that I assume is noisier?? Dunno. Thanks Simon.
Simon knows his onions, I use his excellent PSU myself. I think it is in part a Teddy Pardo design, combined with various bits of collected forum wisdom that stemmed from iproving the power supplies Naim offer.
Alan, I got it (cuz you mentioned it here..I get NO email notifications of anything Audio Chews does, and rechecked my settings and profile info many times) and responded, thanks.
@ted_b First click on your name on the main navi (at the top), then click on My preferences.
Are you also clicking on the star on the right of the Discussion lists when you want to be notified?
If you're still not getting anything, it must be because the e-mails are being snaffled up by your anti-spam measures. I'll PM you the originating e-mail addy, if you like - I'd rather not publish it here for all those lovely spambots.
Uglymusic, Thanks but...been there, done that a few times. No big deal, I check here often. And I know my spam filter and check it often, so it's not making it that far.
Thanks ted - good to hear from you. Very glad to heat v2 is working for you also - wait till you hear a decent PSU. It is a subtle but very definite improvement.
The improvements wrought by Simon's power supply are as subtle as Simon himself!
(sorry Si!)
Definitely worthwhile - think along the lines of the EVA PS upgrade, but more substantial. Rather hard to qualify/quantify (for an illiterate dunce like me), but you wouldn't want want to be without it.
Comments
I am almost convinced there is a very slight clipping on some tracks - but it is minuscule, and I am hyper-sensitive to it after V1. The prime offender for me was 'I'm gonna go fishin' on Duke Elegant, by Dr John. It might just still clip very slightly on the transients (usually on HiHats & cymbals - which by nature are sharp & staccato), but it is very hard to tell. Not enough to worry about at the moment.
I'm currently listening to Roisin's Ruby Blue, flac'ed with foobar, and I can confirm the distorsions on track 3, also on track 5. the distorsions disappear by lowering -1db the volume, and/or lowering the output stream to 16bit with no dither applied (I've always used KS @ 32bit since the first time...).
very strange, never listened to something similar with the other cd I've flac'ed...... anyway don't think this is a big problem...lowering the volume with 32bit doesn't bring any quality loss if you are playing 16 or 24 bit files...
I can confirm the distortion (crackling) is still present - mostly in the first 10 secs or so of the track. It is - and I need to emphasize this - very slight indeed, but unmistakeable. It does not clip at all in iTunes, which outputs a slightly lower volume than Decibel.
My ears are still tuned to this, after trialling V1 for so long. I don't yet find it intrusive as very few albums are affected. My other though thought is the same as David's - there may be a little clipping in the production/mastering, as these are certainly 'hot' mixes.
a very low 0127
:-/
anyway even @ 32bit every cd I played was fine, no clipping, click or distorsion.... now I'm @ 16bit for the flac'ed cds, and change it to 32 when playing highres files
mike
I just disabled all the exclusive access options & tried to adjust things in AudioMidi but there was only the 32bit option.
I suspect a MAC driver problem myself, as it still won't play 352 files without disabling the automatic sample rate adjust options and setting audiomidi manually to 384. Hopefully a revised driver will solve the rest of these issues.
Mine is 0169, and yes - the bass is gorgeous.
\:D/
I reported way back about the great sound of the V1 Young via AES/EBU, driven by my Weiss DAC2 digital ouput, and in fact stated that the two DACs, with same ASI Liveline interconnects, sounded almost identical. Well.....I haven't tested that V2 setup yet but I will tonight, very explicitly.
I'm part of a S/PDIF cable tour on Audio Circle right now. A few of us are demoing the Black Cat Veloce 75ohm S/PDIF cable, and it's in my hands right now. The day I received it I hadn't gotten the Young back yet so I tried it from an Oppo player into the Weiss (I never listen that way but it was a decent comparison). It significantly bettered my older Chris Sommovigo design'd Stereovox HDXV....so tonight I will give it a real good test....I will pit in once again against the HDXV, and also against my favorite budget AES cable, the DH Labs D-110. Last time I favored AES over S/PDIF and assumed it was the hardware (i.e not cables) but since the HDXV fared so poorly against the Veloce loaner maybe the hardware inputs/outputs are not to blame. Maybe my S/PDIF vs AES comparisons have been guided by a mediocre cable. So, tonight I'll set up the Weiss feeding the Young...and report back.
If anyone is using a BNC Hi-Face to a DAC that has a BNC connector on the back like the Naim DAC has.
Dont bother with a coax digital cable from the Hi-Face to DAC.
Just connect the Hi-Face to the back of the DAC with one of these,
and buy a Female to Male USB cable to go to your MACs
Perhaps it is preferable to to use a USB cable as the HiFace will asynchronously re-clock the signal, which then doesn't have to go through any more cabling.
It just leaves the HiFace on the back of the DAC so you dont have it hanging from in my case the side of my Macbook.
The BNC coupler does away with having a digital cable.Much to the better it saves loads of money and sounds loads better.
And
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word I am saying.
(cue Dave)
It cuts out the need for a cable like the Naim DC1 DIGITAL BNC to BNC coax cable £250.
Because the HiFace is linked onto the DAC by the BNC coupler.
My Mac is on its own Target wall shelf.
It works this way also for the Mac mini.
For 90 squid you can do loads better now than a Hi-Face and it does not need any tools loaded onto ones computer.
It comes in a little black box that looks nice also.
I realize the PS requires 15-18V but what abou the mA or amperage rating of the PS. the reason i ask is this: my Young DAC came to me with an inexpensive UK/Euro power supply wall-wart that I never got working, even with a Radio Shack US adapter. My dealer loaned me a laptop-style switching ps (18V, 3500mA) that is the basis for all my reviews and comments so far. I am likely to buy this damn DAC
So...I am in need of a short term ps and have a laptop one here that is 18.5V but also says 4.9A (4,9A). Can it be used? Should I look elsewhere? I have a large white Radio Shack wallwart, too, that is 18V and 1A. That one? Any suggestions short of TeddyPardo or Paul Hynes (cuz those of coming this way, but it will be awhile). I am not a battery fan...too lazy and non technical.
BTW, did you get my PM ted?
Thanks but...been there, done that a few times. No big deal, I check here often. And I know my spam filter and check it often, so it's not making it that far.
(sorry Si!)
Definitely worthwhile - think along the lines of the EVA PS upgrade, but more substantial. Rather hard to qualify/quantify (for an illiterate dunce like me), but you wouldn't want want to be without it.